fire alarm certificates

[sparkyork]

hi all ive just installed a 4 zone fire alarm and was wondering about the certification process, how many certs you need and preferebly a link to a free download of some blank ones.

cheers

Guiness Drink

 

[Apache]

eBay has some CD's of forms for a few quid

 

[ian932]

You need to issue a bs5839 commissioning cert and you will need to sign the installer part - if you sign the certificate as the FA engineer you should be trained to do so as this certifcate means you have positioned devices etc to bs5839 you will also need to specify the category of system design for the end users insurance ie M, L1, L2, P1 etc. and you may need a Fire Officer or Build inspector to sign off if its new build and needs an occupancy cert.

Who designed the layout?, what is the use of the building?, is it new build?

 

[sparkyork]

cheers guys, i havnt had any formal training for fire alarms, however i have positioned them in all the right places and to bs 5839 etc. its a commerical shop in leeds, local building control informed me that fire officers are a thing of the past now? any way i basically designed the layout and need to certify it asap.

next week it will be getting connected into the main fire alarm system (part of travellodge via relays etc)

cheers

 

[Evans Electric]

I have found over the last few years that insurance companies won't accept a fire alarm from an electrical contractor, the firm has be BS whatever .

We did one in a shop within a Birmingham city centre shopping mall, the alarm was stand alone but interfaced with the shopping mall system through clean contacts.

Problem, they would'nt accept it from us , not accedited fire alarm co. Had to get a friendly FA co. to certify it.

We never do them these days.

 

[ian932]

cheers guys, i havnt had any formal training for fire alarms, however i have positioned them in all the right places and to bs 5839 etc. its a commerical shop in leeds, local building control informed me that fire officers are a thing of the past now? any way i basically designed the layout and need to certify it asap. next week it will be getting connected into the main fire alarm system (part of travellodge via relays etc)

cheers

If the landlord was aware of your lack of qualification and probably insurance I don

 

[sparkyork]

cheers ian, i appreciate what your saying and will check a few things out, ive got publib liability insurance so will see what that covers..

the installation its self is cock on, there are no problems with it at all. ive probably gone over the top with sounders but thats never a bad thing, all been done to the british standard etc, surely its gotta be about compontence?? after all you can rewire your own house and not have any qualifications but so long as labc check it and its all good etc then its all rosy? i mean there aint much to a fire alarm is there, its only 2 wires! lol

clearly fire officers are not bothered with this particular shop then like you say.

i will have a word with my client tommorrow and try and see what the best course of action is, to be honest i dont see what the problem is, im currently with nic domestic installer scheme which doesnt cover me for commercial premises (till next year) , so again all the electrical works that are completed are done on a compotence level, so surely that should apply to fire alarms.

rich

 

[ian932]

With the greatest of respect just because it is only 2 wire's does not make it simple at the end of the day you are fitting a system that is there to protect life and property and the building inspector will probably not check your end of lines or fault functions at best he will ask you to test an MCP and smoke and do a db reading and check the link to the landlord system.

Every discipline in life is a matter of competence but competence comes from training not just reading a BS. How many times do you see people ask question on here about 7671. Reading the BS does not give us the competence if that were the case I could go and joint an 11kv cable live tomorrow having read the book.

There are two UKAS accredited schemes for approving those who install fire detection and fire alarm systems. One is the Loss Prevention Council (BRE Certification) LPS 1014 scheme. The other is the BAFE SP 203 scheme. Most building insurers will want you certificate issue with you registration number on the cert.

I would guess your PL insurance will not cover this you would probably need to have professional indemnity cover as you have designed, installed and commissioned a fire safety installation.

If I were you for the sake of

 

[bassman]

If this is a conventional system going onto an analoge sytem as you say (travelodge)

This will have to be done by an alarm co or approved contractor.There are interfaces to be fitted to the main sytem, is it a full evacuation or phased. People in bed if some thing goes wrong.Having been in the business for many years I would not put my name to the design.

You have commented that it is loud enough sounders, as stated you have to do a Db test readings including any risers cuboards mark them on the drawing and sign.

Thats your life sorted.

What type of sytem is L or M any ammendments to BS.

A completion Cert with these on. Usually it is the Architect and they wont admit makeing any errors.

Give them a readings sheet as that is all I would do in your case.Cable readings,as Ipresumed you belled the cables out, before connecting to anything.

No seriously beware it is a minefeild.

 

[ian932]

As Bassman say's there is the interface to consider and if you set it up wrong with the landlord interface you could have a embarrassing situation of being unable to do a reset as one system could latch the other into alarm every time you try to clear one panel down. There are various way's to link systems to overcome this issue either way you will probably need liase with the landlords FA engineer - I would employ them as they know the site etc.

 

[sparkyork]

cheers all, your points are noted..

the alarm is L type wirh mcp's and smoke detectors, there is an interface at the back of the unit where i have ran my 4 core fp from the panel for the connection which is not done by me, the landlords fire alarm bloke does that.

allthough i stated i havnt had formal training in fire alarms i meant i havnt sat some expensive exam for it, ive been in or around them for many years now and are more than familiar with the ins and outs to do with the regs, as well as installing them.

my concerns were about the certification process and nothing else, the alarm is tested and fully up and running with no problems

so i think i will have a word with the fire alarm company that comes to connect into the main panel and see what happens.

 

[ian932]

No offence but your really starting to push my buttons with the laid back I know what I

 

[no1electrician]

sparky york ,this is for the shop in leeds right ?

if you've designed and installed it to bs5839 and commissioned it , good.

you are talking having the work verified by A.N. other installer

seems to me you are covering your rear .i've also seen the pictures of your installation previously .

i'd rather see installations tested and signed off properly but even on larger units than yours ,when we've got commissioning engineers in all they do is test all devices and check sound levels

some good advice but a bit "belt and braces "

wayne

 

[sparkyork]

hey ian, thanks for your resonse and indeed you are correct i have installation, testing and commisioning experience with fire alarms but not in the certifying of them, i am NOT laid back about it or i wouldnt be posting questions would i??

i am trying to bite my tongue a little bit as i have not stated anywhere that i am gonna just sign it off and it ll be ok kinda thing, so please chill out.

i was after some advise which i have got and i am appreciative for. i can assure you that the finished project will be more than upto standard and if there is loss of life it will NOT be anything to do with my work..

right then, today i managed to get hold of the guy that designed the installation and he is coming to the unit tommorrow, he will be signing the design certificate and i will be signing the installation certifacte. the alarm is been connected to the interface panel by the landlords designated fire alarm man who is also gonna re-commision my alarm system for there and my peace of mind.

wayne yeah its for the shop in leeds should be open in the next week, looking pretty good aswell, will post some pics when the site is totally clear.

cheers

 

[sparkyork]

oh forgot to add i still need to provide the certifacates that are going to be used for the job, anyone know any places i can download some from??