Fire alarm question

[Starbuck]

Hi all. Ive been asked to quote for a Fire alarm system in a house that contains 4 self contained flats ( not HMO). Speaking to the local fire authority they recommend a cat C system.

I plan to wire 2 ionisation alarms at the downstairs hallway / upstairs landing that are interconnected. These will also be interconnected to 1 x Heat alarm in each of the 4 flats. The supply will be derived from 1 x communial CU via a 6A RCBO. Also I'll install a locate hush test switch in the communial hallway.

All wiring for the alarms will be fire proof grade.

The 4 flats will also have their own local heat and Ionisation system not interconnected to the 'communial' system these will be supplied through a 6A RCBO at each of the flats individual CU.

My question is does this fall under the 'Notifyable' category?

If not is a minor intallation cert adequate?

All answers appreciated.

 

[NozSpark]

I would have thought that you'd need to install a panel alarm inc. sensors, sounders & break glasses. You could install std domestic alarm systems in the flats though!

 

[Starbuck]

Thanks Noz.

I called the local fire authority and spoke to what I'd consider an expert. I explained the layout of the property and he gave the advice I posted.

The flats will have their own 'local' systems.

Would this job be notifyable?

Ta

 

[green-hornet]

Its a multiple occupancy building, in the event of fire all occupants should be able to hear an alarm, the alarms should all be interconnected and there should be manual call points situated on all levels within the design specifications. You can have independant alarms like you mention for each flat but in the event of fire they should be able to use a manual call point to alert other residents.

If this is a new install then it is notifiable, you mention that you plan to install so this would suggest the requirement for an EIC and fire alarm installation certificates along with commisioning and hand over certificates.

I would always install a fire alarm panel in the entrance, there are many to choose from nowadays that are simple "plug and play" like the rafika twinflex, they are cheap but do the job well and are easy to install.

As with any fire alarm you have to do a proper risk assessment to evaluate a proper system, the fire brigade can help and advise, but in my experiance they have a limited knowledge of the full regulations, and will in some cases allow systems that are not to specification. They rely on "expert" knowledge by the installer.

 

[NozSpark]

Just googled this and a Grade C fire alarm is definately a "proper" panel alarm, not a domestic system.

and I'd say it was notifyable as you'd be adding a new circuit

 

[a1spark]

HI starbuck. you say you will be installing new wiring circuits back to the consumer unit and its a domestic property so my advice is yes it is notifiable work under Part P of the building regs

 

[wozz]

im struggling to see how its not a HMO? am i being thick here?

if it is a HMO the number of floors it covers decides the system.

 

[kme]

OK - I`ve been doing the electric trickery for 15 years in 13 blocks of properties, exactly as described. (Starbuck - if you`re quoting on MY work, we`ll fall out )

If they`re "purpose-built" self-contained flats, then they AREN`T HMOs. The system as described is what I install within these units - precisely the same, funnily enough........

Spoke to the regional fire officer about it, and the system suggested is as described above.

KME

n.b. Individual flats are probably notifiable; the communal system isn`t (non-domestic). HOWEVER, the communal does fall under 5839-1, NOT -6.

 

[Evans Electric]

I don't think Fire Alarms are notifiable , if they called in a Fire Alarm specialist he would'nt notify it or if they got a security alarm firm to install it ,they would't either so just do it .

Fit the supply spur and don't tell anybody , live dangerously ; \ :run

 

[sparky b]

I thought communal areas in blocks of flats came under the scope of part p - hence notification needed...... (my apologies in advance if I'm wrong)

B

 

[green-hornet]

I thought communal areas in blocks of flats came under the scope of part p - hence notification needed...... (my apologies in advance if I'm wrong)B

No its classed as commercial, the work INSIDE any flat is considered as domestic for the purpose of catagory of use.

 

[Evans Electric]

Won't it be a 24v system with just the supply in 240v . Does everyone really bother to notify a feed to a panel ? Is anyone interested ?

 

[green-hornet]

To be honest I notify almost everything, even a changed 13 amp fuse for a correct 3 amp on many boilers FSU's, I also email all my certs to the building control so they get sick of me as well.

My advise is to stalk your local building control and bombard them with useless certificates until they submit.

 

[Evans Electric]

I applaud you for that GH but I think my views on un- nesesarry paperwork are well known.

 

[kme]

Won't it be a 24v system with just the supply in 240v . Does everyone really bother to notify a feed to a panel ? Is anyone interested ?

Not necessarily, I use, as said, a "standard" system, though wired in FP200.......

And no, not really!

 

[green-hornet]

I applaud you for that GH but I think my views on un- nesesarry paperwork are well known.

I must admit I should really be the same, but I give a certificate for everything, it proves I did everything possible, and left everything safe, so if the preverbial hits the fan I have some documentation to prove my diligence.

By the way I don't really notify a changed fuse, thats just me being very very silly, like Brian, I am not the messiah, just a very naughty boy.

 

[wozz]

it will be notifiable if the suppply for the fire alarm is shared with one of the flats.

example one metered supply does landlords and one flat (landlord lives there) as they have a common origin i would take this as notifiable.

correct me if im wrong but thats the way ive always looked upon it.

 

[Andy™]

Hi all. Ive been asked to quote for a Fire alarm system in a house that contains 4 self contained flats ( not HMO). Speaking to the local fire authority they recommend a cat C system.I plan to wire 2 ionisation alarms at the downstairs hallway / upstairs landing that are interconnected. These will also be interconnected to 1 x Heat alarm in each of the 4 flats. The supply will be derived from 1 x communial CU via a 6A RCBO. Also I'll install a locate hush test switch in the communial hallway.

All wiring for the alarms will be fire proof grade.

The 4 flats will also have their own local heat and Ionisation system not interconnected to the 'communial' system these will be supplied through a 6A RCBO at each of the flats individual CU.

My question is does this fall under the 'Notifyable' category?

If not is a minor intallation cert adequate?

All answers appreciated.

had to price a similar job a while back - got a local fire alarm co in. came up with a proper 4 zone alarm for the communal areas, and stand alone detectors in each flat.

iirc, the communal area does not come under part p, however, if its supply is taken from a flat then it will need notified. if communal area has its own meter, then no problem

 

[Evans Electric]

I must admit I should really be the same, but I give a certificate for everything, it proves I did everything possible, and left everything safe, so if the preverbial hits the fan I have some documentation to prove my diligence.By the way I don't really notify a changed fuse, thats just me being very very silly, like Brian, I am not the messiah, just a very naughty boy.

Well shows how silly I am , I believed you . I would much rather continue to work in the commercial/industrial sector but there seems to be less and less going on.

I blame Brian .

 

[nutsy]

I would put in a proper panel system as it sounds like HMO to me. have a look at the c-tec web site. two wire system, mix of detectors, manual call points, sounders and strobes on each zone. nice and easy to install good price and reliable.