Fire in the loft

[M107]

Called out to a property last night by my sister, her neighbour came round in a panic(2 story extension & electrical work 9 months old)..."lights tripped I reset the mcb but now the consumer unit is sparking & when I turned the bathroom lights back on the mcb tripped again"

I got them to isolate the cu & made my way there;

Well the rcd sparking was a red herring, it was nothing to do with the lights, just a loose termination........

The bathroom lighting on the otherhand, if ever there is an advert for why you should not cover cabling (in this case it is 1mm T/E) & reccessed fittings under insulation in a loft space here it is:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/gazjothomas/20120817_204446.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/gazjothomas/20120817_204458.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/gazjothomas/20120817_204504.jpg

3 of the four fittings were as above & the fourth was showing signs of browning on sheath.

They were lucky they had a reasonably upto date cu & not the old original 3036 boards that are in these properties. I say reasonably upto date as it is a 16th ed split load board.

Anyway outcome is they were not happy with the builders sparks originaly (had some problems with the sockets & things) so have asked me to undertake a EICR & fit new lighting in the bathroom (partial re-wire due to burning of cable)...

 

[m4tty]

Nice one M cheers for sharing

 

[batty]

Those GU10'S do get hot I hope spark was registered for part p and the customer can claim of his insurance.

:shakehead :|

 

[M107]

Those GU10'S do get hot I hope spark was registered for part p and the customer can claim of his insurance. :shakehead :|

Thats what I told them to do, They have certs & other paperwork so we shall see.

The builder has gone under, but the spark is still trading.......they know where he lives & which boozer he frequents & they are looking to chase this down. The lady of the house was terrified & before she would put the young kids to bed I had to assure her the circuit was safe once I'd done the quick fix of removing all knackered lights & used wago's in JB's to terminate conductors (have to say the IR is low but passable), left them with one pendant as a stop gap to light the bog for use at night (until I can get back there next week some time).

 

[batty]

And they say part pee is working.

:shakehead

 

[Steve3948]

Seen this so many times.

I bet the electrician told the builder to not cover fittings with insulation and leave a gap either side, then the builder gets one of boys up there throw insulation everywhere.

I personally don't like these open fittings and will use insulation rated fittings if I think builder is a crash bang merchant.

 

[betty swollocks]

To be fair to the spark he could have legally installed the lights with there not being any insulation in the loft at the time

We have no idea what was discussed for final finish perhaps he should have installed hoods but as we all know hoods cost more than the fittings and If a builder is used cost is king

Personally I always use fire rated for a little protection from this

What's the difference between this and installing a new consumer unit only for another tradesman to smash the front and leave it with busbar showing?

You can only do what you can on the day

 

[danmoriarty]

Why don't people just switch to using led gu10 equivalents? Much less heat generated making it a bit safer

 

[Steve3948]

Why don't people just switch to using led gu10 equivalents? Much less heat generated making it a bit safer

Maybe

 

[steptoe]

Why don't people just switch to using led gu10 equivalents? Much less heat generated making it a bit safer

do you think?

there is a reason there is a massive heatsink on the back of an LED, they just dont project so much heat from the front.

 

[Graham Lister]

do you think?there is a reason there is a massive heatsink on the back of an LED, they just dont project so much heat from the front.

Sorry but even though they may have a big heatsink the heat they dissipate is nothing compared to how hot the fittings get with a 50W halogen in there. Still wouldn't cover them in insulation but if it was an LED in a fire rated fitting then I am sure the damage seen would not be as severe as what happened here.

 

[ProDave]

Seen this so many times.I bet the electrician told the builder to not cover fittings with insulation and leave a gap either side, then the builder gets one of boys up there throw insulation everywhere.

I personally don't like these open fittings and will use insulation rated fittings if I think builder is a crash bang merchant.

Insulation rated fittings?

Please give me an example.

ALL downlighters, even fire rated ones need a gap in the insulation around and above them.

 

[Steve3948]

Insulation rated fittings?Please give me an example.

ALL downlighters, even fire rated ones need a gap in the insulation around and above them.

Dave, here you go Aurora - 'Passionate about Lighting'

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was made at 17:38 ----------

Dave, here you go Aurora - 'Passionate about Lighting'

Or if that link don't work see here

 

[M107]

They are the ones pushed by Fire brigades, since the ECS & FRS collaboration on down light fire risks.

Mind you it wont help the cables that are covered in 500mm of insulation.

 

[binky]

had a similar call out a few years ago. Insulation around light, plus carboard on top of that, plus carpet on top of cardboard. Fault lay with home owner for piling stuff on top of fittings, but made a nice charred mess of the terminal boxes.

 

[Steve3948]

They are the ones pushed by Fire brigades, since the ECS & FRS collaboration on down light fire risks.Mind you it wont help the cables that are covered in 500mm of insulation.

They used to do a LV Mr16 version with a Red colour transformer which was also deemed to be able to be covered with Insulation, however I note they no longer do this version, so I assume they had problems with it, although I have never been called back to ones we fitted.

 

[dave2]

Just had my neighbour call as she has been in the loft and noticed a light shining under the insulation.Can I have a look?

yes there are 2 lights shining through the insulation which is fine. Unfortunately for her there is no light coming from the other 10 downlights. They hav been covered with insulation.

This was a job done earlier this year by the power companies free insulation programme. This is the second time I have seen this done by the same company.

A fire hazard in the making.

How many times have they done this without thinking/knowing of the consequences?

Frightening.

 

[steptoe]

can yopu put LEDs in those though?

it states alu reflector lamps only, this I think is a problem in itself, the average tenant/homeowner will simply put in the cheapest replacement lamp they can get.

 

[Steve3948]

can yopu put LEDs in those though?it states alu reflector lamps only, this I think is a problem in itself, the average tenant/homeowner will simply put in the cheapest replacement lamp they can get.

They do LED versions, and to be honest if it can take a GU10 Halogen it will cope with LED no problem.

The LED's get hot on the back but nothing compared to the halogen.

 

[Evans Electric]

Funny how we have to read the Regs every day before we leave home yet firms go round piling 10ft of lagging over all the downlights in the country.

It should be made public as a possible fire risk.