Fuse issue

[Murdoch]

I'm not a sparky by any means and I'm not pretending to be. I have basic knowledge and that's it. 

Matey, you need to be discussing this with your boss, not us.

theres one thing having a "go" in your own house at home BUT doing this on a commercial site is another matter all together. Your boss may want to consider his insurance position for personal liability for you and the equipment ....

 

[Doc Hudson]

The sparky put a bigger cable in for this exact reason so I'm sure he had a plan of how to do it. My boss won't pay for him so I got to do it. I'm not a sparky by any means and I'm not pretending to be. I have basic knowledge and that's it. 

So what I'm asking is it just as simple as a bigger fuse? And if not, why? And does anyone have an idea what the sparky's plan was if it wasn't to do that?

First answer, No it is not as simple as a bigger fuse. Whoever does this work legally should be designing and testing it in accordance with current wiring regulations, using a calibrated test meter, and documenting all of their results on an electrical installation certificate. Then signing a declaration to confirm that the amended installation is electrically safe and compliant with all aspects of BS7671. You by your own definition are not competent to design or test or certify this work, therefore you will almost certainly be breaking the law if you undertake it. This forum will always offer sensible guidance for any safe practice. Sometime that safe guidance is to stop, don't do any further work and call a competent person. Any other advice in this instance would be negligent and stupid of the forum to offer. If you have copies of the previous electrical certificates and photographs of all of the existing distribution boards we may be able to guess at what the other "electrician" was planning.

Doc H.  

 

[Evans Electric]

Is your boss aware that regulations exist controlling electrics on caravan sites?  

I presume he doesn't want to pay the electrician , as Andy says ,  a read of  BS 7671    3rd ammd.   section 708  wouldn't go amiss .   

Your boss and now YOU , have a duty of care concerning the residents / users of those caravans ..........you can't even place caravans within certain distances of each other.  

I know one thing.caravan dwellers are notorious for adding to the  load they pull.   They have no conception that they are on a restricted supply ,  think they're at home with a 100A domestic supply  when they're in a gloryfied tent in a field. 

 Oh   And you didn't need to call Dave a "smartass"!    

 

[kerching]

I am coming a bit late to this party, but,  HOW are you measuring the cable size?

 

[Sidewinder]

The sparky put a bigger cable in for this exact reason so I'm sure he had a plan of how to do it. My boss won't pay for him so I got to do it. I'm not a sparky by any means and I'm not pretending to be. I have basic knowledge and that's it. 

So what I'm asking is it just as simple as a bigger fuse? And if not, why? And does anyone have an idea what the sparky's plan was if it wasn't to do that?

James,

This is a little more complex than first appears.

It is IMHO too complex to explain over an internet forum.

You need to verify the volt drop for the cable for the increased load, and if the cable is as you say 35mm sq. then you will need the full details of the reactive load, r, x & z values to do this.

Once you have this, you will know the volt drop on the sub-main.

Then you can factor in the volt drop on the distribution circuits at the far end of the sub-main, then the final circuits in each caravan etc.

Then you go on to the rest of the design calculations, and it may be an iterative process.

Now the issue that you have is this is a workplace, and EAWR applies in full, thus, there is a statute law requirement for those undertaking the work to be competent and comply with EAWR.

From your posts it does not seem that you meet this statute law requirement, thus, due to your own admission you are not competent to do the work, therefore you would be knowingly breaking the law, criminal law.

As would your employer (company), and your line manager (personally).

This is not something that should be taken on lightly, you could easily end up killing someone if you get it wrong.

Would you really want to do that.

The other guys have tried to advise you against this in their own ways, they are a little more abrupt perhaps, in their manner, however, it does not change the fact, that you have admitted incompetence, and, thus you would be committing a criminal offence under H&S law if you did this work, as would your employer (company) & line manager (person) for putting you in this situation.

It may not be what you want to hear, however, unfortunately it is the truth.

 

[Andy™]

i suggest the 350a version

 

[Evans Electric]

Isn't that 2000A  (Slow blow) actually the "Never Blow"  ?

 

[Doc Hudson]

Just a thought, the 130amps are very hard to get hold of these days, since the drinks can manufacturers changed the design of ring-pulls. So if you do see any 130A for sale, cheap on Ebay, best buy as many as you can whilst stocks are still out there. (younger members may not be as aware of this problem as the; Deke's, Steptoe's, Kerching's, Sidewinder's, Binky's etc, or similarly mature electricians of the forum are.

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

Well also  I didn't think a Laughing Cow Cheese foil wrapper was rated at 16A   ....the Dairylea ones definitely were .

Remember the 13th edition tables ?  

A 30A fusewire running at 100%  overload should blow in ...erm ... about 1 to 3 hours ...possibly .

 

[James1985]

James,

This is a little more complex than first appears.

It is IMHO too complex to explain over an internet forum.

You need to verify the volt drop for the cable for the increased load, and if the cable is as you say 35mm sq. then you will need the full details of the reactive load, r, x & z values to do this.

Once you have this, you will know the volt drop on the sub-main.

Then you can factor in the volt drop on the distribution circuits at the far end of the sub-main, then the final circuits in each caravan etc.

Then you go on to the rest of the design calculations, and it may be an iterative process.

Now the issue that you have is this is a workplace, and EAWR applies in full, thus, there is a statute law requirement for those undertaking the work to be competent and comply with EAWR.

From your posts it does not seem that you meet this statute law requirement, thus, due to your own admission you are not competent to do the work, therefore you would be knowingly breaking the law, criminal law.

As would your employer (company), and your line manager (personally).

This is not something that should be taken on lightly, you could easily end up killing someone if you get it wrong.

Would you really want to do that.

The other guys have tried to advise you against this in their own ways, they are a little more abrupt perhaps, in their manner, however, it does not change the fact, that you have admitted incompetence, and, thus you would be committing a criminal offence under H&S law if you did this work, as would your employer (company) & line manager (person) for putting you in this situation.

It may not be what you want to hear, however, unfortunately it is the truth.

Thankyou. Actually some advise I can take to my boss. Only took a whole day of people trolling and acting high and mighty. Get off your high horses people. Your sparkys not gods

 

[phil d]

The lads are right James,you sound as though your boss is the typical tightwad, wants to do everything on the cheap, bet he doesn't let people live there cheaply. As has been mentioned already, you are in EAWR, territory here, and the people that enforce that carry big sticks, and they'll use them at a moments notice! Many years ago I was involved in an incident that should never have happened, the HSE became involved, as did just about anyone else who had an axe to grind! My boss suddenly went into ass covering mode, "it's your baby, you deal with it", it was me that had to go to site and deal with what was lucky not to become a fatal incident, it was me who was interrogated by all and sundry, it was me that was having visions of cell doors slamming shut!

At the end of the day, the near miss was found to have been caused by someone who knew nothing, messing with something they shouldn't have messed with. Fortunately the work I had done was fully compliant with the relevant regulations, and I was beyond criticism, it was still a very worrying time for me, and not something I'd like to go through again.

Just because you may know how to gland off a cable,and connect a few wires, doesn't make you an electrician, do you have the correct test gear, do you have up to date copies of the relevant regulations? I can weld, good enough to make brackets etc, but if someone asked me to weld a pipe on a pressure vessel, then the answer would be no!, just because I can weld doesn't make me a welder.

If your boss pushes the issue, then ask him to buy you some kit, a copy of BS7671, plus a copy of the ON SITE guide, plus GN3, should only cost about £150, that will give you an idea of what the regs are and how to comply with them, then you'll need the test kit, a decent MFT, with calibration cert should only set him back about £800, then you can test your wiring before you put it into use, oh and a current clamp meter wouldn't go amiss either, again they're not dear,£150 should get you a fair one.

As you see, the stuff I've listed above is only part of the kit that we electricians own, we own it because we need it, just think how much beer you could buy for what it costs to buy what are the basics of test gear.Even if you did know fully how to do what you are being asked to do, without the kit to test it with, you'd still be leaving yourself open to a prosecution if something went wrong. You'll get good advice on her, I'm a decent spark believe me, however there are people on her who could make me look like a novice, please take on board what you are being advised, otherwise you could end up having a long holiday yourself, and it won't be in a caravan.