Gas Boilers/gassafe

[Sidewinder]

Guys,

Anyone know at which point on combi boilers as far as the electrical side goes, they need to be done by gassafe people?

Is it ONLY the gas side/gas seals etc?

Or, is it the whole unit?

Changing a thermostat for example?

 

[Sharpend]

Afaik, you can work on anything as long as you don't open the gas sealed chamber?

I've done fans, and the like.

 

[Andy™]

providing you dont open the sealed chamber inside, carry on

 

[kme]

Depends on who you talk to.

Generally, I take it that, as long as I don`t have to mess about with the gas valve pipework; I`m not involved with the "gas safe" regs.

However, some suggest that, as the flue is an integral part of the burner process - anything involving the flue is "gas only"  - yet fanned flues may need our input?

A few years ago, we had to replace an inline, TP commercial flue fan ( it had been run on two phases for a looooong time!) ; and we very carefully checked out, with our & the clients insurance; and the clients`s gas engineers - who basically said it was a long way out of their remit.

There doesn`t seem to be a definite demarcation line - I have heard some fitters say that it is "illegal" for a non-gas safe person to take the front cover off a boiler - but, I don`t quite subscribe to that level of paranoia..............

 

[Blue Duck]

Depends on who you talk to.

Generally, I take it that, as long as I don`t have to mess about with the gas valve pipework; I`m not involved with the "gas safe" regs.

However, some suggest that, as the flue is an integral part of the burner process - anything involving the flue is "gas only" - yet fanned flues may need our input?

A few years ago, we had to replace an inline, TP commercial flue fan ( it had been run on two phases for a looooong time!) ; and we very carefully checked out, with our & the clients insurance; and the clients`s gas engineers - who basically said it was a long way out of their remit.

There doesn`t seem to be a definite demarcation line - I have heard some fitters say that it is "illegal" for a non-gas safe person to take the front cover off a boiler - but, I don`t quite subscribe to that level of paranoia..............

That's what they said on watchdog, so it must be true!

:innocent

 

[ProDave]

There doesn`t seem to be a definite demarcation line - I have heard some fitters say that it is "illegal" for a non-gas safe person to take the front cover off a boiler - but, I don`t quite subscribe to that level of paranoia..............

So I broke the law then last week when I took the front off a WB boiler to re connect the mains supply properly then?

(the only way to get at anything on that boiler is take the whole front casing off which exposes all the works, gas and all)

 

[Sharpend]

Like you Dave, I regularly take the fronts off boilers to do our connections!

 

[Andy™]

providing the front cover isnt part of the combustion chamber, then no problem removing it

 

[ulp]

I ought to be locked up by now then.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

There is a fact sheet here http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Who_can_legally_work_on_a_gas_appliance_-_Factsheet.pdf

replacing a fan can be dodgy as a lot of fans in condensing boilers carry/force a mixture of unburnt gas and air into the combustion chamber, so is classed as a gas fitting. Some fans suck the products of combustion away into the flue and it is not ok to "work" with them either. Only fans which carry only air are allowed to be worked on except old positive-pressure boiler fans which pressurise the whole inside of the case, in which case removing the case would be illegal. Hope this helps.

 

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for the responses, but the potential client (a family friend) was in the sticky stuff at the time of my OP.

It's not my normal area, gas boilers that is, but they are just a simple machine.

It was the legislation I was concerned about.

I can't over step the mark as it were.

They found someone else by the time I had decided I could do the job for them without needing GasSafe.

Not worried.

However, thanks again all for the help those who have posted.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

If its not paid work anyone can do it, just like electrics. (No sarcastic smilies on my tablet) excluding part p. However although I may work on my own I would not even think about doing gas work for freinds etc.

 

[kme]

I fail to see the logic - very few gas fitters seem to understand the pressure differential valve, in either purpose or operation. Logic says that, as I DO, then I`m in a better position to resolve it - its like when the boiler guys call us out, as they`ve decided its "an electrical problem" - which can involve the inside of the boiler.

I don`t have to go near the gas service - but there are now potentiometers on the PCBs, which can alter the gas valve modulation - I don`t touch them, but they could be touched.

If the boiler is positive pressure, you might not know until you opened it up - is that the point you hand yourself in to the police for self-prosecution?

I know my limits -I don`t do anything with gas. But I DO tend to know more of the inner workings of the boiler than many of the so-called "gas engineers" out there.

Three separate jobs last year - "fan has failed". No - in all cases, fan was fine. Two were pressure transducer ( one faulty, one blocked ambient air pressure pipe) ; and the third was a flame sense fault. The muppets couldn`t find this, and, in one case, had replaced £500 worth of parts, before I told them it was a £1.99 piece of rubber tube :slap

I think a modicum of logic has to come into the argument - it isn`t "black & white". IF you`re competent ( NOT "deemed competent", but actually competent) to do the works safely, then get on. Perhaps you call a gas safe person to "check it over" when you`re done; but follow this madness to a logical conclusion, and we`d need a team of half a dozen differently qualified guys....each one taking out "their" screws, then waiting for the next........

Good luck finding a customer willing to pay for THAT!

 

[Rob_the_rich]

If its not paid work anyone can do it, just like electrics. (No sarcastic smilies on my tablet) excluding part p. However although I may work on my own I would not even think about doing gas work for freinds etc.

GSIUR http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/2451/regulation/2/made defines work as;

“work” in relation to a gas fitting includes any of the following activities carried out by any person, whether an employee or not, that is to say—

(a)installing or re-connecting the fitting;

(b)maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting, repairing, altering or renewing the fitting or purging it of air or gas;

©where the fitting is not readily movable, changing its position; and

(d)removing the fitting; but the expression does not include the connection or disconnection of a bayonet fitting or other self-sealing connector.

Also;

3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

So competence is the key.

... IF you`re competent ( NOT "deemed competent", but actually competent) to do the works safely, then get on....

I might be wrong about this, but I remember someone telling me that GSIUR is the only law that presumes guilt unless you can prove you are innocent. Looking at the regs;

Exception as to liability

39. No person shall be guilty of an offence by reason of contravention of regulation 3(2) or (6), 5(1), 7(3), 15, 16(2) or (3), 17(1), 27(5), 30 (insofar as it relates to the installation of a gas fire, other gas space heater or a gas water heater of more than 14 kilowatt gross heat input), 33(1), 35 or 36 of these Regulations in any case in which he can show that he took all reasonable steps to prevent that contravention.

seems to back this up. It does seem to cherry pick which exact regs this applies to, but 3(2) is there, so any paid-for work would I assume mean that you would have to prove competency. Since 3(1), quoted earlier, is not in this list, I assume if you did unpaid work, or work on your home, it would still be illegal, but they would have to prove your incompetence.Not trying to scare you good people, just trying to clarify stuff.