Heating Won't Come On

[OnOff]

Is it wired as the Y Plan?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.honeywelluk.com%2FDocuments%2FFull-Specification%2Fpdf%2F807.pdf&ei=vUxcUo2mIom-0QXipoHIAg&usg=AFQjCNEVe7OewcoWbaJGOIOby8ZBRYXUFw&bvm=bv.53899372,d.d2k

If it makes it easier for you print out the relevant diagram and overmark the wires in the appropriate colour (nick the kids felt tip set)! Then check against what you have in the 10-way connection centre.

 

[Doc Hudson]

What was the last maintenance work done on this system before you were involved? Have any other components been replaced, cylinder stats, room stats? Has the cylinder stat been left with two wires revered so that the HW off is not present to drive the valve full over to the heating only position.

Doc H.

 

[duffbeerdaddy]

Ha, ha - I did break out the colours to draw myself a little diagram just to try and saturate a few things. Yes, 99.99% sure it's Y-plan - Have looked at lots of bumf and info. Looked at fully pumped systems with and without pump overrun - this appears to be the latter.

What I really don't get is why the supposed Live from the cable marked L/E/N is effectively dead??

 

[Doc Hudson]

You would need to know where the other end of the cable is to try and answer what the installer intended its use to be. Could there have been old room stats that are now disconnected. As has been pointed out there is no all encompassing method for wiring heating systems. No one on the forum can answer some of these question without actually seeing and testing out the cables. Even if you quote cable colours, A blue on one system may be a red on another and a yellow on a third, all doing the same function.

Doc H

 

[steptoe]

Im thinking possibly at some point changed from an old analogue danfoss [106?] where there was no option for CH only and the wiring has been altered wrongly/not at all.

 

[duffbeerdaddy]

Thank you Doc and Steptoe. I know what you mean about the wire colourings. Also, I take the point about the possibility of there being old/different programmers / stats on the system, but I do know that these are the original and only programmer, stats, boiler and system set up.

I think my father, in his eternal wisdom, saw fit to mess about with the wiring for reasons unbeknown to the rest of us. Don't suppose I'll ever know really!!

Doc. In answer to your earlier question, I have been wondering myself that, although the H/W comes on /off with no trouble, maybe there is a wiring issue there that is preventing the valve from switching over to C/H. Not knowing enough about these things, it is a case of learning as I go and a bit of trial and error. It is something I will definitely be checking though, cheers.

I found a penny on my sofa earlier. Maybe I'll have some luck tomorrow ; )

Thanks to everyone for ALL your help and advice.

 

[batty]

Are there any links in the programmer that honeywell model needs them.

      If it was me I think I would undo everything and start again mark up where everything goes also insulation test cables to ensure cabling is OK. If this was done you would at least then know it is wired correctly.

 

[OnOff]

Found some instructions from an old "contractors pack". You may be able to at least see how such systems work and transpose to yours:

 

[steptoe]

Im sure I posted up a transposition at some point where different programmers wiring was transposed to others,

maybe I just dreamt that though,  :C

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

      If it was me I think I would undo everything and start again mark up where everything goes also insulation test cables to ensure cabling is OK. If this was done you would at least then know it is wired correctly.

Absolutely right!!

Too much random guessing has gone on...

You have got to break it all back down to individual components...

and follow a logical step by step path..

isolate parts...

test them..

Then replace if faulty or reconnect if good..

At the moment there are still to many known unknowns and quite probably more unknown unknowns that need to be proved

I would do some testing with live voltages from a test lead onto strategic points to check valve is moving as it should

and boiler trigger voltages are outputting where there should..

BUT I would never recommend a DIY'er did this on a system that they do not have a clear understanding of how it is wired or how it should work.

Electricity can easily seriously injure or kill.

especially with lots of nice earthy metal pipes nearby to make a good path through your body.

I think the heating probably hasn't worked on its own for ages....

Only ever run it with hot water at the same time!

Im sure I posted up a transposition at some point where different programmers wiring was transposed to others,

maybe I just dreamt that though,  :C

You did... :Salute

its somewhere in the bowels of the forum archives!!

 

[duffbeerdaddy]

Sorry not to have replied to all your posts sooner - I've had a mental couple of days in work and haven't even been near a laptop. Anyway, thank you all again for your time and efforts. It is very difficult at times, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, to communicate quite what I'm seeing/experiencing with the issue and, likewise, for people to advise based on that info.

Anyway, suffice to say I have now checked and double checked every element/component of the system and ruled out any faults in that sense and, through all my digging/research (the internet is a wonderful thing!) and all the help on here, I have actually become quite au fait with how it works.

I finally bit the bullet this morning and took the advice of a colleague who, like yourself batty, suggested stripping it all out in the junction box and wiring it back in from scratch and........Success! I then got my colleague to pop out at lunch with me to double check everything and basically get some reassurance that all was as it should be and that the actuator was all switching over correctly for heat, water and both etc. etc.

The programmer is linked, (you are right again batty!) through L-5-8. What the main problem with it all seemed to be (apart from some other wiring errors upstairs in the junction box) was that the spur from the programmer carrying the L/N/E up to the junction box wasn't connected on the live. This only became apparent this morning when I decided to totally unscrew the backplate and  inspect everything coming in/out. Perhaps I should have done this before now but, looking at it as I was, it appeared that I had full view of everything in there. Why it was like this, who knows?? but it answered my question as to why I wasn't picking up a Live at the other end.

There were a few other issues like the cylinder stat being wired up arse-about-face and there needing to be wiring for a pump overrun, but I think everything else was already as it should've been.

This issue has plagued me for what feels like an eternity, but I'm glad to say that I will sleep well tonight. Sadly no beer to help me on my way - I'll save that for the weekend!!

Thank you all once again, though. I am sincerely very thankful and Would like to say how good it is to know there are people out there willing to give their time and help to amateurs like myself. Big thumbs up!!        :Applaud        :Applaud       :Applaud

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thank you very much for coming back to update on your results after asking the initial question. So many posters do seem to forget to update what the results are, good or bad. Sounds like the key error was assuming some points you hadn't actually proved first of all. This I think is one of the most common errors in any fault finding.

Doc H.

 

[duffbeerdaddy]

Indeed, many lessons learned. The trouble was, when I set out to do this, I had only a basic idea of how the system worked in terms of the wiring and the only way I could operate really was by trial and error and by taking the advice from each of you on this forum. I love a bit of DIY and I'm quite a kinaesthetic learner, so I like to get in there and see how things work. I'm also quite OCD and, once I started, I couldn't let it beat me!!

Anyway, all's well that ends well and, besides, the person buying the house has got a lovely new actuator, gratis!

Thanks Doc H.

 

[batty]

Glad its sorted.