HND Electrical-Electronic Engineering

[Marc]

I'm looking to do this sometime in the future. Currently doing 2330 level 3 and looking in the future to do the HND and move into design. Has anyone ever gone this route? Do they allow you to join the HND programme with 2330 or do they want their own HNC first?

Also, how much of a step-up from the 2330 is it? I'd consider myself good at maths, is it much of a difference?

Apologies if this should be in the student zone, wasn't sure where to put it!

Thanks,

Marc.

 

[Northern Electric]

I can comment on this one.

I did HNC and followed with HND. It really is a difficult course, HNC is 2 years, then you go on to HND if your grades on HNC were high. Maths on HNC is very difficult, I did city and guilds 236 C cert before HNC, I had to do an A level maths course alongside the HNC course because my maths was not up to scratch. I think the foundation degree is now classed alongside the HND, either way you are only 1 year from a full electrical degree. I just havn't had the time to finish my degree yet. Some lads on my HND course went on to do degree and they are way ahead of me now. I have a family and can't justify the time at uni at the minute.

 

[davetheglitz]

Probably way out of date (70's /80's) - I did ONC, HNC then degree. Spent many years doing Microwave Design, and then Test Equipment Design. Very insular and found my expertise far exceeded that of management - which probably says a lot about my attitude to management!!!

The HND was considered as the full time version of the HNC.

Back then an ONC was considered as the equivalent of 2 A levels - with good passes enough to go direct to degree level. I could see no reason to do an HNC to get on an HND course.

Thinking nowadays I reckon you would get on an HND course direct if your maths skills are good - worth pushing as bums on seats carries a lot of weight in colleges. Maths skills needed for engineering - trigonometry, transposition of formulae, graphical skills. Possibly logarithms and powers. Complex numbers, differentiation and integration may come in later.

If you are prepared to travel or are in an area where there is a lot of engineering - then fair play - go for it. You will have to go where the work is.

In Plymouth/South Devon engineering is in decline. Many thousands of jobs have been lost. I know some great engineers who are stocking shelves at Tesco. A few are now electricians and really enjoying themselves!

Consider your options and what you are prepared to do to get ahead. Once you've done that have confidence in your ability and go for it IF IT'S WHAT YOU REALLY WANT!

 

[Northern Electric]

I would go the foundation degree route as oppose the HND route. As Dave says, you have to be focused on the route you want to take. Just don't give up!

 

[Marc]

I would go the foundation degree route as oppose the HND route. As Dave says, you have to be focused on the route you want to take. Just don't give up!

Thanks for the advice, Northern & Dave.

I was mainly looking at going into large buildings/industrial premises design, working with architects etc, and I've read quite a few case profiles where they've gone the usual apprenticeship route and then gone onto HND to get into this; would you still advise the foundation degree for this sort of work?

Dave - that sort of maths I'm fine with, not sure if it was because I had a decent teacher but I covered most of that at GCSE level (wasn't used in the exam, but he was a physics teacher so I presume he gave us the extra for his own interest).

As for following where the work is, I'm quite happy to move around the country so that isn't a problem.

 

[davetheglitz]

Thanks for the advice, Northern & Dave.Dave - that sort of maths I'm fine with, not sure if it was because I had a decent teacher but I covered most of that at GCSE level (wasn't used in the exam, but he was a physics teacher so I presume he gave us the extra for his own interest).

Respect to your maths teacher!!! I spent 2 years as a Physics teacher - but quite frankly I couldn't hack it. Knew what I wanted to teach - but classroom discipline was always a problem. I really wanted to clip a few of the s**tes round the ear for stopping others from learning - but they knew their rights better than I did! Very frustrating and stressful time. He has obviously cracked it!!!! Brilliant!

 

[davetheglitz]

Just an aside - in industry we had different names for qualifications:-

HNC --- He's No C**T

BSc --- Bull Sch*t

MSc --- More Sch*t

PHd --- Piled High and Deeper!

Once in a job - the level of qualification you started with becomes null and void. A lot of people lose sight of this! Your qualification is just the start - personally I became such a specialist type of engineer that I was unemployable within the sector due to so few vacancies.

 

[Marc]

Respect to your maths teacher!!! I spent 2 years as a Physics teacher - but quite frankly I couldn't hack it. Knew what I wanted to teach - but classroom discipline was always a problem. I really wanted to clip a few of the s**tes round the ear for stopping others from learning - but they knew their rights better than I did! Very frustrating and stressful time. He has obviously cracked it!!!! Brilliant!

He was & (probably) still is a fantastic teacher. I think he'd been in engineering at some point in his life - he'd built light planes, boats etc from scratch, a really intelligent chap. His small class size helped!

Re: Qualifications, I agree once you're in you're in, unfortunately nowadays it seems if you haven't got the 'correct' bits of paper you're not getting in! Obviously employers will be supportive of any further training/development that could benefit them. Did you find being (for want of a better term) 'over-qualified' a hinderance when looking to change jobs? i.e. Employers presumed they were a stop-gap and went for someone less specialised?

Marc.

 

[davetheglitz]

Being over 50 and overqualified can be a problem!

Most tradesmen don't believe that anyone who is academic can be practical as well.

Employers employ personnel to sift through the applicants - and many of these aren't the brightest pennies in the register! If an employer states HNC they may reject someone with a degree! More likely if 'O' level maths and english is stated they may reject a candidate who has got an Honours Degree if he hasn't got the specific qualification.

When with British Aerospace our department in Plymouth closed down and we were asked to move to Bristol - so our CV's went up so the new department could see where we would fit in. One of the CV's made it into an external applicants pile by mistake - so the bloke who had been doing the job for three years and made a project manager was deemed as being insufficiently qualified and experienced - and received a rejection letter!

Once again - no problem if you can go to the work - but to stay in one area can be a problem.

 

[wozz]

Marc you have pretty much the same plans as me (i would also like to design large systems / work with heavy power users). The problem i have encountered is time. I Have been trying to book myself on the 2391 all year but havnt managed to find the time. I also want to do the design and verification course before taking on the HNC. But again this will require more time that i simply cannot afford at the moment. I started maths tuition to get my somewhere near the A-level standard required, and this was heavy going.

So for the moment it is on hold until the city and guilds are out the way and im competent in all the relavent areas of maths. I will do the course one day but its looking like at least two years away now!

 

[Marc]

Dave-

Seems a shame that they don't employ the personnel who actually have an understanding of what a person's qualification entails! What's the average age of the people in the design industry? I imagine it to be the type of place where a lot of people take early retirements for one reason or another, or changing jobs into something a bit less stressful? Lucky BA kept people in their jobs, nowadays they'd be given to people in China who work for 95% less and produce 99% less quality.

Wozz-

Nice to know I'm not alone in my intended route! Are you in the industry at the minute or trying to get into it? Sounds like you're pretty busy.

Re: Maths. Have you always found maths easy or difficult? I've had a look at some of the a-level papers, they don't look too much of a step-up from what I was taught for GCSE.

Marc.

 

[wozz]

i work for myself, i have 2360 1+2 nvq3 17th. I see the HNC as the natural progression for learning this subject after the city and guilds are done.

The HNC will needs alot of time devoted to studying at home which the course tutors warned me about.

I never struggled with maths, on the 2360 i thought all the maths was straight foward. But the maths for the HNc was something quite different. I got a maths entry paper for the course which the college gave me to study. I did pick it up when i had tutoring but it was fairly hard going, some was very long and complex. And alot of it i had defiantly never seen before. If i was to have sat that paper without tutoring i reckon i could have got a big fat zero.

Your college may have a similar entry paper, may be worth getting hold of this?

 

[kzzam]

I have already passed my HNC and would suggest looking at quadratic equations, Laplace transforms and know calculus like the back of your hand also thevenin and nortons theorem is in there aswell. That will give you some idea of the level of maths in the HNC so if you struggle with those I wouldnt attempt the HND. The rest of the course is basically following the design process through, project management is a large part of it also but not difficult. Hope this helps.

 

[davetheglitz]

I have already passed my HNC and would suggest looking at quadratic equations, Laplace transforms and know calculus like the back of your hand also thevenin and nortons theorem is in there aswell. That will give you some idea of the level of maths in the HNC so if you struggle with those I wouldnt attempt the HND. The rest of the course is basically following the design process through, project management is a large part of it also but not difficult. Hope this helps.

Hi Kzzam,

Agree with you about quadratics - but the rest of what you mention is part of the course material. I don't think you would not be expected to know this before starting an HND. Obviously there may be some catching up to do - but it's all do-able. Ask the college.

With application you can learn to pass maths exams. Applying the stuff in the real world is another matter. A tame mathematician is worth his weight in gold in engineering!

 

[ktguk]

I'm looking to do this sometime in the future. Currently doing 2330 level 3 and looking in the future to do the HND and move into design. Has anyone ever gone this route? Do they allow you to join the HND programme with 2330 or do they want their own HNC first?Also, how much of a step-up from the 2330 is it? I'd consider myself good at maths, is it much of a difference?

Apologies if this should be in the student zone, wasn't sure where to put it!

Thanks,

Marc.

i looked into doing this the tutor said to me have you got a a-level math`s or were you in the top 3 doing part2 science, if not there prob not much point in doing HND electrical and electronic engineering, he said only about 2 or 3 ppl from level 3 electrical have ever managed it

 

[Nicky Tesla]

I did HND electronics but it would have taken another 4 years at hull college to get the degree. Another 4 years was all too much, it would have split my marriage up as the mrss was getting broody and she was having to work to keep a roof over our heads.

 

[Marc]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Local college (Hull) I think only do HNC. Spoke to my tutor about progressing to HNC after level 3, he told me it's possible but they'll probably do a science test and should I fail that then there's a 1-year bridging module available.

Nicky - how long ago was it that you did HND at Hull? Have only ever seen HNC on the prospectus. What qualifications did you enter with?

Marc.

 

[nic00b]

If your wanting to do a degree after HND, make sure you check the various modules that are included in the HND..I say this as Uni's wont accept you for the shortened course if you havent done a programming module etc...And if it helps learn matlab

 

[kristenhemingway]

I have just qualified as an electrician, doing the 2330 C&G course. Im wanting to progress into doing a HND in electrical engineering. I have a placement on a HND course, as i said i would self study. I have been learning quite abit of maths so far. Im just wondering if anyone could help me, and let me know what im expected to have learnt already within maths and science, before i start the course. QUICK replys please. thanks

 

[OzWiz]

I finished 2330 level 3 in june 2009 and started a part time HNC in sept alongside NVQ3, 2391 and am2. I only had 2 modules to do last year and it was quite a strain. Passed them tho. My 2 modules were renewable energy and sustainability/energy management. started off with pretty familiar stuff like power factor at a more advance level, then went off the chart...

I will carry on this year part time with 4 modules. I'm in plymouth and the the qualifications all lead into each other. the part time route is 2 years to HNC, 3rd year gets you Foundation degree (equivalent to HND) and then 4th year full time to get to BSc. Full time it's 1 year to HNC, 2 to foundation and 3 to BSc.

I'm not naturally gifted at the maths so have had to work hard, i allow 8 hours a week in the evenings at home (no more tv). you'll need this as there will be loads of assignments on top of your course work. they give you a formula sheet in the exams tho so you don't have to remeber it all, just how to use it, which is hard enough...