How do you check circuits in a house after installing a new fuse box?

[Gina]

Dear electricians, if I had to give opinion about house works like kitchen installing, floors, decorating etc. I could, but electrics are a Science Fiction subject to me.

We had an electrician 6 weeks ago and he was taking care and checks all electrics in our new purchased house. He said he will need to get rid of little bits first (a few new sockets and switches, new spot lights) before installing a new fuse box.
So, after installing the fuse box, he should test it, right? I don't know what means testing circuits, but I told the electrician to make sure everything is ok as we will have new floor boards installed.. His easier answer was to rewire the whole house.. It is a 4 bedrooms house. It can have some newer circuits and older ones.
Please dear electricians, how was he supposed to check our circuits were in good state/shape? After he left we had fuse tripping all the time. I told him and when he returned, he said it is fine, the electricity is in the switch and the 3 wires are ok, earth/ground, neutral and live. So he went. The floor guys came and then again the tripping was crazy. In one particular area, not everywhere. So, the house didn't need to be rewired everywhere but only one circuit. But the electrician came with "I told you to rewire the whole house".
Dear electricians, if you find current / electricity in the device / switch, this doesn't means that it works, if it doesn't hold power like a vacuum cleaner. Then what? The 2 ceiling lights in the hallway stopped working, electrician doesn't know why, but he said there is electricity in the electricity tester device ( he used a pen for the lights and testing if it's electricity in the wires and the plug with 3 lights for plugs, which if it comes all 3 green than it's fine...)! Really, please enlighten me! He said he will have to track the wires for the lights in the loft. Anyway, we have new floors and switch circuit not working! Wonderful!

How are you testing any house circuits, please? Or you come with "You need to rewire the house". The house can be old like most of houses in UK, but that doesn't means you need to rewire. We don't know what the previous owners did, but still, how would you precede, please?
Thanks a million!!

 

[ProDave]

A competent electrician would test BEFORE he changed the consumer unit. The process of testing is quite lengthy and too much to type out but it certainly sounds like your "electrician" was not competent. What certificates did he give you after completing his work? If his only "testing" was with a voltage pen and a plug in socket tester then he is not an electrician, but a cowboy.

Not all houses need a rewire, just as not all recent houses don't. but most old houses will need some upgrading works.

If you are having new flooring, get the tripping issues sorted first, so stop the work on the new flooring or you might be undoing some of that work, or the electrician will blame the tripping on the work you have just had done.

 

[binky]

get a different electrican, your current one is a prat! Just because something has a live supply, leccy in, doesn't mean there isn't a fault on the neutral ie leccy out FFS!

If banging and crashing from the flooring guys is causing trouble, it's possibly just a loose connection, but either way, if there was a known issue, he certainly should have sorted it before the flooring went down.

 

[Murdoch]

He doesn’t sound like he has much hands on experience

Find another one

 

[binky]

Said sparky should have issued test certificate for changing the board, and provided Part P notification for building control. If he has not provided either, then make a formal complaint to his registration body.

Also, under doorstep selling legislation he should have provided a written quotation, with terms for changing your mind. Failure to do so means you can claim back any monies charged in full - ask Trading Standards about that.

 

[Gina]

A competent electrician would test BEFORE he changed the consumer unit. The process of testing is quite lengthy and too much to type out but it certainly sounds like your "electrician" was not competent. What certificates did he give you after completing his work? If his only "testing" was with a voltage pen and a plug in socket tester then he is not an electrician, but a cowboy.

Not all houses need a rewire, just as not all recent houses don't. but most old houses will need some upgrading works.

If you are having new flooring, get the tripping issues sorted first, so stop the work on the new flooring or you might be undoing some of that work, or the electrician will blame the tripping on the work you have just had done.

Dear ProDave, the electrician did some testing after the consumer unit instalation but I don't know if he tested all circuits or I did not look what he was doing.. He has an electronic box with a wire attached and a hook at the end which he used it to catch the wires by the cooper end, one colour at the time, the neutral, the live and the ground. He looked at the numbers, the closer to zero means is good, but the ground to the problem circuit/ tripping circuit was 99.. I looked at this testing method when he came and unfortunately 80% of the floors, in fact 100% of the floors where the plugs did not work were already installed. The guys did the floors in 2 days. The tripping was before the floor guys came, we called the electrician and he came and said it's ok! Now, the third time he came he showed me the circuit is old, not with copper wires.. but did he not see that BEFORE???
He didn't issue any papers yet, he said he will, but now with this last issue not sure what he will issue. Maybe a failed certificate with the guilt of the owners because we were not thinking to rewire the whole house.. He didn't do any testing to reach the conclusion with full rewiring. Of course there is no responsability on his side..

And thank you for your answer!

 

[Gina]

Dear ProDave, the electrician did some testing after the consumer unit instalation but I don't know if he tested all circuits or I did not look what he was doing.. He has an electronic box with a wire attached and a hook at the end which he used it to catch the wires by the cooper end, one colour at the time, the neutral, the live and the ground. He looked at the numbers, the closer to zero means is good, but the ground to the problem circuit/ tripping circuit was 99.. I looked at this testing method when he came and unfortunately 80% of the floors, in fact 100% of the floors where the plugs did not work were already installed. The guys did the floors in 2 days. The tripping was before the floor guys came, we called the electrician and he came and said it's ok! Now, the third time he came he showed me the circuit is old, not with copper wires.. but did he not see that BEFORE???
He didn't issue any papers yet, he said he will, but now with this last issue not sure what he will issue. Maybe a failed certificate with the guilt of the owners because we were not thinking to rewire the whole house.. He didn't do any testing to reach the conclusion with full rewiring. Of course there is no responsability on his side..

get a different electrican, your current one is a prat! Just because something has a live supply, leccy in, doesn't mean there isn't a fault on the neutral ie leccy out FFS!

If banging and crashing from the flooring guys is causing trouble, it's possibly just a loose connection, but either way, if there was a known issue, he certainly should have sorted it before the flooring went down.

Thank you Binky, the tripping was there before the floor guys arrival.. I tried to use the vacum and it tripped. Than it tripped again at the next plug and it tripped with another occasions. I explained at ProDave answer reply... It is a circuit where are connected 4 plugs, 2 and 2 in 2 different rooms. A fifth item connected to the bad circuit was a fusebox for the 2 heat controler zones which luckly could be sorted as the electrician took the fusebox out and connected the wires to the plug with a good circuit situated just next to this fusebox.
The lights in the hallway stopped working (but have electricity in) and the floor guys said they did not have the lights working at all. Anyway.. a way to fix cables without taking the floors out could be using skirting boards with space behind for rewiring.. That's my idea..

 

[Gina]

get a different electrican, your current one is a prat! Just because something has a live supply, leccy in, doesn't mean there isn't a fault on the neutral ie leccy out FFS!

If banging and crashing from the flooring guys is causing trouble, it's possibly just a loose connection, but either way, if there was a known issue, he certainly should have sorted it before the flooring went down.

Said sparky should have issued test certificate for changing the board, and provided Part P notification for building control. If he has not provided either, then make a formal complaint to his registration body.

Also, under doorstep selling legislation he should have provided a written quotation, with terms for changing your mind. Failure to do so means you can claim back any monies charged in full - ask Trading Standards

He doesn’t sound like he has much hands on experience

Find another one

Too late now.. thank you

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Dear electricians, if I had to give opinion about house works like kitchen installing, floors, decorating etc. I could, but electrics are a Science Fiction subject to me.

We had an electrician 6 weeks ago and he was taking care and checks all electrics in our new purchased house. He said he will need to get rid of little bits first (a few new sockets and switches, new spot lights) before installing a new fuse box.
So, after installing the fuse box, he should test it, right? I don't know what means testing circuits, but I told the electrician to make sure everything is ok as we will have new floor boards installed.. His easier answer was to rewire the whole house.. It is a 4 bedrooms house. It can have some newer circuits and older ones.
Please dear electricians, how was he supposed to check our circuits were in good state/shape? After he left we had fuse tripping all the time. I told him and when he returned, he said it is fine, the electricity is in the switch and the 3 wires are ok, earth/ground, neutral and live. So he went. The floor guys came and then again the tripping was crazy. In one particular area, not everywhere. So, the house didn't need to be rewired everywhere but only one circuit. But the electrician came with "I told you to rewire the whole house".
Dear electricians, if you find current / electricity in the device / switch, this doesn't means that it works, if it doesn't hold power like a vacuum cleaner. Then what? The 2 ceiling lights in the hallway stopped working, electrician doesn't know why, but he said there is electricity in the electricity tester device ( he used a pen for the lights and testing if it's electricity in the wires and the plug with 3 lights for plugs, which if it comes all 3 green than it's fine...)! Really, please enlighten me! He said he will have to track the wires for the lights in the loft. Anyway, we have new floors and switch circuit not working! Wonderful!

How are you testing any house circuits, please? Or you come with "You need to rewire the house". The house can be old like most of houses in UK, but that doesn't means you need to rewire. We don't know what the previous owners did, but still, how would you precede, please?
Thanks a million!!

To fully answer you questions would take far toooooo long...
But to try and summarise a few key points:

UK wiring regulations BS7671 (current 18th edition amendment 2 came into effect Sept 2022.)
It is 600+ pages long... Current BS7671 from Amazon

Another useful reference is a 198page book, "Guidance Note3" which covers inspection and testing of both New and Existing installations..
Guidance Note 3 from Amazon

The above two documents should be followed by a competent electrician and would answer your questions..
.
BUT..
they also recommend that domestic electrical installations are inspected & tested at regular intervals including a change of ownership..

If you did not ask for copies of previous electrical certificates,
or arrange to get a periodic inspection done when you purchased the property..
Then there can be a large proportion of pot-luck, around the condition of an electrical installations wiring and accessories..

A basic problem is that modern consumer units compatible with current wiring regulations, can detect numerous faults that older consumer units installed to earlier issues of BS7671 wiring regs cannot detect!

So an old consumer unit may not trip the power off.. but a new Consumer unit connected to the same circuits could trip the power off as it has detected a fault condition that the older Fuse box/Consumer unit could NOT detect...

Also, a poor designed consumer unit configuration could be susceptible to cumulative, nuisance, inconvenient tripping..

Anyone considering any substantial refurbishment projects on any property, should ALWAYS ensure hidden services, Gas, Electricity, Heating, communications etc.. (pipes or cables), are satisfactory BEFORE arranging dates for other trades to start work making access difficult or immposible!

Its a bit hard to second guess exactly what you problems may or may not be without seeing any electrical certificates for the installation?

 

[Gina]

Thank you trailer boy, we are trying to do stuff in the right order, we had a few unlucky or just say bad experiences with different trades regarding different matters. The previous owners did not provide much to us.. We really had a hard 3 years with trying to buy a house.. I will not detail. This is about electricity. We talk to the electrician which someone recommended back in November. The floors were done these last 2 days. The electrics could or should be sorted before, or we would delay the floors.. The electrician said it's all fine. He was going to provide certificates but he delayed. We will ask for them or asked already, but we will fix this recent issues and than he should give his OK in writing. The electrician should know his stuff.. he cannot blame us for not changing the entire house electrics when by now just one circuit was bad and he didn't detected! The previous fusebox was indeed old and did not tripp, as this new one is very sensitive, but he installed it over 6 weeks ago. He came again as we had the issue and he said he checked and it's ok.. now, too late to discover it's not ok. When working with different trades, each and one of them are coming with their own way to do it. If I asked first thing first, check the gutters and you do decoration instead, delaying and lying bla bla. Asking a kitchen fitter to paint first, noo he was not going to do it. just at the end, so all the dust and extra cleaning, protection and worrying for the new installed kitchen.. same with electrician. Someone here said the electrician should have test the circuits right from the beggining, before installing the new consumer unit. Anyway, we just did not have much luck with various traders.

 

[mort2376]

Hi Gina,

It does sound like your really going through hell with this renovation. It is always difficult when multiple trades are involved trying to coordinate them in the correct order.

From what you have said it sounds like the electrician did carry out some testing. However testing is not just about pressing a button on a meter and writing down a reading, any ***** can do that. It's about being able to interpret those readings.

As people have already said a consumer unit change can open a huge can of worms regarding things that worked quite happily before it's done.

You said he suggested a full rewire was this after he had changed the consumer unit ? If it was then maybe your dealing with an inexperienced electrician who has no clue how to fault find a full installation. Hence the a full rewire is needed / will sort it.

I would ask another electrician who is registered with a competent person scheme such as Napit or Niceic to give you an Eicr report on the electrics in the property.

Don't go into detail about all the issues and potential reasons behind them as your after an independent report and not offering them a scapegoat.

Then armed with that I would go back to the original person and offer him the chance to rectify the issues and if he won't I would report him to his registered body ( if he is registered ) and trading standards and consider legal action via small claims court.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Murdoch]

Could you post a photo of the new fuseboard?

 

[Murdoch]

. Anyway.. a way to fix cables without taking the floors out could be using skirting boards with space behind for rewiring.. That's my idea..

That is NOT an acceptable route for cables .............. and no decent spark would suggest it or do it

 

[binky]

That is NOT an acceptable route for cables .............. and no decent spark would suggest it or do it

you can get skirting board trunking.

 

[Murdoch]

you can get skirting board trunking. View attachment 14794

the op was suggesting behind skirting, not in special skirting

 

[kerching]

you can get skirting board trunking. View attachment 14794

What make is that?

 

[Gina]

Hi Gina,

It does sound like your really going through hell with this renovation. It is always difficult when multiple trades are involved trying to coordinate them in the correct order.

From what you have said it sounds like the electrician did carry out some testing. However testing is not just about pressing a button on a meter and writing down a reading, any ***** can do that. It's about being able to interpret those readings.

As people have already said a consumer unit change can open a huge can of worms regarding things that worked quite happily before it's done.

You said he suggested a full rewire was this after he had changed the consumer unit ? If it was then maybe your dealing with an inexperienced electrician who has no clue how to fault find a full installation. Hence the a full rewire is needed / will sort it.

I would ask another electrician who is registered with a competent person scheme such as Napit or Niceic to give you an Eicr report on the electrics in the property.

Don't go into detail about all the issues and potential reasons behind them as your after an independent report and not offering them a scapegoat.

Then armed with that I would go back to the original person and offer him the chance to rectify the issues and if he won't I would report him to his registered body ( if he is registered ) and trading standards and consider legal action via small claims court.

Hope you get it sorted.

Thank you mort2376! I am so thankful people are so supportive and trying to help here! So nice of all of you! Thinking you have an electrician coming for 5 and a half days in your house, with hours more (5-6 hrs) or less daily (4 hrs but quoted full day), I didn't know he will quote per day, as he came afterwords with the quote, initially just giving us some estimates for little jobs and the consumer unit job, ended up to stay a few hours everyday, than a full day for consumer unit and the 6th time he came to finish all the bits he found at so called testing, meaning earth here and there and some little things, he said the job is finished and the upstairs is all good, as he knew we will have new floors. You come 6 times and don't find the faulty circuit?!
Example of bad traders, when asked to fix the chimney they covered it with tar, they melted it and covered the flashing, making a mess, and the wholes / air bricks of the chimney.. we have no ventilation in it now. How I knew what they did? I went up the roof. took photos.. these guys are everyone's nightmare. They supposed to fix the ventilation... did they do it? NO. They wanted to do that tar all around flashing and chimneys! I stopped them. They did so much s..t, but we tried and hoped they will do better as the main guy is the biggest lair on this planet.. I don't trust people, but I believed this guy! He is some character I never dealt with before. Always listening to you, approve with you and give you a solution which was never implemented as he was talking c..p. I had to read everyday online to find answers to our problems. Another trader (different to these ones) told me he can trick the police lie detector!! What kind of world are we living in? I am also scared to make a complain or even to write a review, as those guys may harm our house from the outside, or just waiting for us when out and around.. Police is only getting involved if it's a crime or blood.. If you have a dog, again, what if he gets kidnapped?
In the past, for wrong doing going to court, end result, the company got dissolved and disappeared.. Why I feel we, consumers are not protected and have of be afraid of saying anything.
Thank you and I wish a better planet for everyone.

 

[Gina]

Yes but most customers still call it a fusebox. And look blank when you say consumer unit. I tend to ask where is your mains board !

The new consumer unit we have is named Fuse Box! I read that fuse box is an old thing which now is called consumer unit and has the tripping fuses, RCDs, RCBOs, MCBs.

 

[Murdoch]

Could you post a photo of the fuseboard / switch panel / consumer unit ?

 

[Armeg UK]

The new consumer unit we have is named Fuse Box! I read that fuse box is an old thing which now is called consumer unit and has the tripping fuses, RCDs, RCBOs, MCBs.

FuseBox is a brand. They are a company that make Consumer Units (amongst other things).
Fusebox