How many cables into a double socket?

[m4tty]

When was this work done? If it was recently and in a kitchen then is it protected by a 30ma rcd?

 

[Evans Electric]

Ah I see your point, a JB or similar would be better I guess , a 6mm and TWO 2.5s eh ! Must have cut half the cores out of the 6mm , must be a right mess TBH . have certainly seen a lot of kitchens with cooker removed and sockets connected to that circuit.

 

[cjonesguitar]

well i opened it to have a look... you can see the 6mm cables and the sleeves of cable are uptight to the screws and cant see conductors... you can see the 2.5 conductors don't remember them being cut....

i guess my question is in your experience do/can they normally fit...?

 

[Robin Spark]

Yep I had a similar one today, the utility area spurred off cooker point (cooker now plug in single oven).

I think lollipop circuits suck!

 

[Sidewinder]

They may fit.

Only one thing that springs to mind immediately is that you are using a s.o. rated at 20A as a JB for a 30A circuit.

Is this acceptable?

 

[cjonesguitar]

s.o?

 

[Sidewinder]

Socket Outlet

 

[cjonesguitar]

but you can pull 30a from any socket?

 

[SteveT]

You could call it a guitar cct

Anyway enough of that - do you live near Bristol - can you dep on 6th Aug - do you really play guitar???

 

[cjonesguitar]

yes i do.... like a pro... yes not far from bristol poole

 

[Sidewinder]

No cj, you can't.

The plug top fuses will allow around 30A to be drawn if you put a maximum load on both sockets at the same time.

However, the manufacturers only design the socket to take 20A.

I have not seen one rated more than this so far.

Thus, if your ring is drawing a full 30A load distributed around the ring, this would be concentrated at the"joint" socket and would thus be overloading the socket.

Therefore with the info I have been given I would say the design does not comply with BS7671.

It is legitimate to draw 30A from a ring circuit.

It is not legitimate to pass 30A through a 20A rated device.

I also do not know the run of the 6mm sq to pass comment on whether that is overloaded or not.

I am guessing the the 6mm sq is flat twin & cpc as is the 2.5mm sq?

 

[revjames]

Oh yes, Definitely a lollypop circuit otherwise known as a radring Reg 514-45 .I've seen loads of them and for the life of me I can't see a problem with it TBH.

Thought they made showers :coat

 

[chrishaworth]

SO's are rated at 20A due to the thickness of the internal copper, rather than the current carrying capacity of their terminations. However, having recently fitted a 4mm ring main, I would question whether you could fit 2 x 2.5 and 1 x 6mm in a socket outlet without pruning the 6 mm. I couldn't fit a gnat's willy in after 2 x 4mm so 6 + 5 seems a bit steep.

Cheers, Chris

 

[kerching]

SO's are rated at 20A due to the thickness of the internal copper, rather than the current carrying capacity of their terminations. However, having recently fitted a 4mm ring main, I would question whether you could fit 2 x 2.5 and 1 x 6mm in a socket outlet without pruning the 6 mm. I couldn't fit a gnat's willy in after 2 x 4mm so 6 + 5 seems a bit steep.Cheers, Chris

How did you get the Gnat to stay still long enough to carry out this experiment in Entomological Abuse?... :coat

 

[sprocketflup]

How did you get the Gnat to stay still long enough to carry out this experiment in Entomological Abuse?... :coat

He stuck it to the lollipop

 

[kme]

Some S/Os may take the three conductors; and there ARE some on the market that are rated at 26A - but not many. It would depend on the make.

Snakehips: I know where you`re coming from, but you aren`t passing 30A through the S/O as a whole are you? If the terminals are capable of handling it.......

It may not be ideal; and if the conductors have been "modified" to fit the terminations then its baaaaaaaaaad; but it they DO fit without undue stresses. Experienced judgment call, IMO.

 

[sprocketflup]

Ive gotta be honest, I struggle to get 3 x 2.5 t+e's in a s.o. hate doing it

 

[batty]

I think it will all depend on make of socket Contactum always had good space in theres just noticed yesterday they are slightly different now so maybe not anymore but if I had to do the 6 + 2.5 + 2.5 I would try a Contactum first.

 

[Sidewinder]

I have got 4x2.5 in an MK s.o. previously, don't ask but it can be done without too much effort!

As far as a 6 & 2x2.5 don't know

KME, I know you are not passing the current "through" the s.o. to the pins but, the current will be carried by the terminals.

Now are the terminals rated for the thermal increase that a 30A current can generate?

Thing is in a true ring this would never happen would it?

As there would be load sharing around the ring, thus the s.o. terminals would not take full circuit load...

 

[ProDave]

SO's are rated at 20A due to the thickness of the internal copper, rather than the current carrying capacity of their terminations. However, having recently fitted a 4mm ring main, I would question whether you could fit 2 x 2.5 and 1 x 6mm in a socket outlet without pruning the 6 mm. I couldn't fit a gnat's willy in after 2 x 4mm so 6 + 5 seems a bit steep.Cheers, Chris

That's a point I was going to make. If the cables fit the terminal without pruning, then the screw will be clamping all the cables together, so the 30A will NOT flow through the SO but from adjacent cable to adjacent cable.

Whether they fit, and how well the screw clamps them depends entirely on the individual SO. I find modern double 13A SO's lacking. Some makes are okay, but others, particularly the fancy flat plate or decorative ones often have tiny terminals that barely take 3 2.5mm cables, and have a screw so small you wonder of you will strip the thread tightening it up.

so I would say it's down to judgement. If the terminal is big enough and has a substantial screw I would say it's okay. Chances are this is an old install, with an old SO made in the days when they gave you large, substantial terminals, so is probably okay. Until the customer wants it changing for a designer flat plate shiny chrome replacement.