I find this kind of stuff nonsense to be honest

[Evans Electric]

Went to a friend's house to look at changing the C/U .

They'd had a new  central heating  boiler fitted , the sparks had wired controls and installed bonding . 

Forgot who they are but because of staff problems , the installers are from Swansea , having to cover the Midlands for a while . Travelled each day to Brum . 

Someone has left a card to say the bond is on the wrong side of the gas meter and MUST be moved .

It is actually on the wrong side of a junction , which I think is the wording ,  but I 've done a pencil sketch , is it the end of the world ? ....... a guy is having to come from Swansea to move it .  ( I'm betting he never comes TBH )      Those gas pipes are adequately bonded ....certainly 100%  better than before .  

 

[Tony S]

I’ve argued this point before based on the CSA of copper pipe to BS-EN1057. This only holds true for a gas pipe with soldered joints throughout.

OD      wall      CSA mm²

6          0.6       10.2

8          0.6       13.9

10        0.6       17.7

12        0.6       21.5

15        0.7       31.4

22        0.9       59.7

28        0.9       76.6

35        1.2       127.4

42        1.2       154.8

54        1.2       199.0

In theory (common sense) if say the gas pipe passes near the CU’s MET you will get a better reading at the gas meter than following the pipe several metres with a single 10mm² G/Y.

BS7671 doesn’t work to common sense reasoning.

 

[binky]

I've alway found this  a little amusing. The aim of the bond it to bond pipework around the house, so if the join is so terrible, then the bond to the rest of the house must be terrible too if installed before the join as it is suppossed to be :^O

 

[ProDave]

Yes it's pure nonsense. But I have seen a "failed" EICR because the water bond was also after a junction in the pipe (soldered copper)

Some people just need to learn to apply common sense. Or find a different job.
 

 

[Tony S]

I no longer have access to a Ductor but if someone that does have access to one caries this test the results could be interesting.

The tube size doesn’t matter so long as the branch size and test distance are the same.

I’ll lay money on test 2 coming out equal or lower than test 1

 

[Evans Electric]

These things are looked upon differently by different people. 

I was doing some work at a posh house ,  a gas engineer turns up to do something to the boiler.   He seeks me out and , pointing up at the gas meter , says the bond is more than 600mm from the corrugated meter tail and that I should move it because it did not comply.    ( It was about 1mtr away)  

" I didn't install that, mate " 

"Doesn't matter , you need to move it "

"If I wasn't here today , what would you have done ?"

"Well it would have to stay where it is" 

Well I'm off in an hour ...I'll leave you to deal with it "

Gas man wanders off , puzzled.  

 

[Andy™]

the main reason for it being before any branches is simply in case that branch gets disconnected for whatever reason, the gas monkey is too thick to move it so it gets left disconnected

either way, i still think its wrong that it must be on the customer side of meter / stopcock, since the whole point is the incoming pipe may be extraneous, so should be done at point of entry regardless of where any meter / stopcock is

 

[ProDave]

I think Gas "engineers" also have "off" moments.

I was doing some upgrades in a house today being prepared for rental. I happened to notice the Gas check certificate.

It mentioned "boiler location - Kitchen"

and "condensate drain does not terminate above a drain"

Now in this house the boiler is actually in a cupboard in a bedroom, from where a white plastic pipe goes down through the floor, down through a cupboard off the kitchen below, under the ground floor and then it emerges outside over a drain gulley.

So gas men do drive by "testing" as well then?

 

 

[Evans Electric]

They are also very good at installing  , a gas fire say,  then returning  4 years later to service it  and announcing that it doesn't comply with the Regs . 

 

[Tony S]

the main reason for it being before any branches is simply in case that branch gets disconnected for whatever reason, the gas monkey is too thick to move it so it gets left disconnected

either way, i still think its wrong that it must be on the customer side of meter / stopcock, since the whole point is the incoming pipe may be extraneous, so should be done at point of entry regardless of where any meter / stopcock is

What if…………….?

what is practicable is a key word often overlooked.

 

[Andy™]

or just do what some gas monkey done a few years ago - my price for earthing the gas meter was apparently much higher than the gas monkeys so he got the job (gas & boiler at one side of house, electrics at the other). few weeks later i was there for something unrelated. no wonder the gas monkeys price was less, he fitted an earth rod next to the meter outside and run approx 400mm of earth to the pipe...

 

[Rob_the_rich]

I no longer have access to a Ductor but if someone that does have access to one caries this test the results could be interesting.

The tube size doesn’t matter so long as the branch size and test distance are the same.



I’ll lay money on test 2 coming out equal or lower than test 1

Would surely be lower as is going through the thicker walled fitting as well as the tube. 

Gas regs changed recently so that 'not to current standards' situations are not recorded on reports. So we should see less of these things from gas monkeys. 

 

[Tony S]

The linear length of the base and perpendicular in test 2 are equal to the linear length of test 1.

Yes, I would expect a lower reading due to the tee fitting wall thickness so long as it is correctly soldered.

 

[Sidewinder]

Well I wouldn't bother moving it nor make a fuss about it.

I would note it on the paperwork & move on.

I would probably C3 it on an EICR for the reasons Andy gave above.

 

[Sidewinder]

Excerpt from Gas regs on bonding.

(You'd never guess I have found my copy of the gas regs!!!)

View attachment BS6891-2015 (Gas Regs) Electrical Bonding.pdf

 

[Andy™]

how come they get commenty on the reg to make it clear what the reg means, yet we dont and is open to different interpretation of what it means?

i also note that it says min size is 10mm...

 

[Supersparks1234]

They can specify what size they want. They are the gas regs NOT electrical regs so who gives a tosh. The question is which Standards supersedes the other. If neither does then it must be a minimum 10mm as stated in The British Standard. 

 

[Manator]

They can specify what size they want. They are the gas regs NOT electrical regs so who gives a tosh. The question is which Standards supersedes the other. If neither does then it must be a minimum 10mm as stated in The British Standard. 

Actually they can not specify what size they want. The Gas regulations only cover Gas. All bonding should be done in accordance with BS7671 so it therefore follows that BS7671 supersedes anything the Gas regs say.

 

[Supersparks1234]

If the gas regs state a min 10mm and it turns out it is only a 6mm that gas installation is not to their regs.  The gas regs are a BS so should be followed.  As 10mm is a minimum then it is going over and above what BS7671 states in certain circumstances.  There are many examples of this where other regs may go over and above BS7671 and the higher standard should be followed.  Not the lower standard. 

 

[Manator]

If you read the gas regulations it states the bare facts and then refers to BS7671. There is often talk about what the regulations actually mean and how they are both intended and understood or interpreted.

All this to coin a phrase you used is Tosh, as it is not statute law it is only guidance. The problem arises when common sense is not used.