Is it what you know or who you know ? Help please !

[Jay68]

Hi all, new to the forum and to the industry. Got made redundant after 20 years loyal service so decided to get myself a trade. Spent a year and most of my cash and have completed and passed my

7671 18th Edition,  2391 Inspection & test, Part ‘P’ ,EV charging point installation & have IPAF. But I’m struggling to get work to complete my portfolio for the AM 2 as constantly being told lack experience and nvq Level 3. Happy to work as a mate to gain experience and prove my worth as a hard worker but struggling to get a break. Was offered one sub contract only to be turned down at the last minute as my ECS card is ancillary worker labourer as that’s all the ECS will issue me with ? Any help advise would be very much appreciated cheers 

 

[phil d]

Shame you didn't ask before you went down the road you did, most employers are catching on to the fact that short courses are not teaching people properly. Considering you've got no previous experience within the industry, it beggars belief that someone has even let you sit a 2391, let alone charged you for it! To be able to do test and inspection properly requires experience, something which you clearly do not have!

Now, it may seem like I'm having a go at you, but I'm not, what really boils my pee  with all this is the unscrupulous sharks who sell these courses, they get a sniff of someone who has got a few quid redundancy and is probably desperate because he's got a mortgage and a family to support, then they promise you the chance to get a great job earning megabucks, all you need to do is take one of their courses. sadly when it's too late the poor beggar finds out he's a few grand lighter and no nearer getting a job.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Welcome to the forum Jay86, what were you doing for 20 years before you were made redundant? what electrical experience have you got?  If your previous work was completely unrelated to the electrical industry, you will not be of much value to the majority of employers who, (unless they are taking on and training their own apprentices), will tend to want workers who know what they are doing and can be up and running, unsupervised earning money for the business ASAP.   The world of work has always been it is Who you know, NOT what you know that gets your foot in the door and progress up the career ladder.  

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

We get a lot of posts about this Jay ,  and it doesn't get easier .    As far as I know your only route is what you've already said ,   work as an Adult Mate , Trainee , Electrical Labourer  ...but ...take some advice from your local college   ( NOT  a commercial training company )  

Its really not easy  ,  the kids are not getting the apprenticeships in the time honoured fashion .

The "Short Course "  5 week wonder course  was designed for older & experienced sparks gaining further knowledge  etc .     Not a short cut around a 4 year apprenticeship .   I wish you luck ... I'm not sure how  you would progress from Labourer   , others will know ,   

 

[Jay68]

Thanks for the replies gents I guess I’m finding out too late and the hard way ! In answer to you question I was a retail superstore planner,  architectural cad so I’ve been in the commercial building trade all my working life. I trained as a surveyor I’ve supervised and project managed so always had good knowledge of building regs and how things are done just not first hand on the tools

 

[Evans Electric]

OK   Jay  ,  I would say that is where your future lies ,  those are your skills , you've learned em & earned 'em   .  None of us could walk into a job needing those skills and I would say concentrate on that area .

In answer to you post question , I 'd say yes it is who you know so  do you have any contacts within that particular area of expertise ?  

 

[Jay68]

Yes I had a contact and I had a firm offer of a 6 month contract for work on a supermarket chain. Simple job, disconnect a single spur for the shopfitter to rip out and replace a service counter & reconnect the supply. But turned down due to ECS card 

 

[Jay68]

Thanks for the advice gents!  You know I’d happily work as a labourer all day long to learn & gain the experience & do things right ! I’ve never been afraid of hard work i’m old school I believe you never get anything in life if you’re not prepared to graft for it ! Thanks to all 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Everything at the end of the day comes down to equipping yourself to be more saleable in the job market. Which is no different to buying any other product, where a purchaser will look at the cost -vs- what quantity or features a product has. Some retail outlets like to try and make rubbish products look better value by adding totally unnecessary features. Unfortunately there is an abundance of training providers who do exactly the same thing, selling anything and everything they can, to anyone gullible enough to purchase courses whether they need them or not.  And any employer who has their head screwed on, will be able to spot straight away the potential employees who have genuine good value, skillset, experience and qualifications for the price they are expected to pay per hour/month. You have to think what will make you a good product choice for an employer to purchase?  Now if your skillset and experience are limited but you are willing to start back on a low wage, you may prove to be an economically viable purchase. Whereas if your price ticket is looking a bit expensive, and you are trying to justify higher grade, because you have a couple of ribbons and bows around the box called irrelevant qualifications, when the actual box contents, skills & experience are only one third full, still requiring some additional filling to it, you won't look very favourable for any employer to invest in. Unless it's a company owned by family or friends you know, 99% of employers will be looking for the most efficient and productive tools, (workforce), to produce the companies goods or services. You need to search prospective employers or agencies to find out what qualifications and experience people are looking for in your geographical area. There really is no quick fix solution to your situation, what you have already done will not be a complete waste, but it will not be worth half as much, as what you thought it was going to be. You are just going to have to prepare for a bit of a hard slog if you want to reach your change of career goal.    

Doc H.         

 

[Jay68]

Totally agree with all you have to say I’ve just worked for one bloke for three months for free ! To get some experience. I was never looking for a get rich quick scheme just felt some qualifications would open a few doors ? How wrong can that be ? 

On the point of me being allowed to take the 2391 ? 15 guys were on my course most experienced electricians I was the only one who passed the written exam first time. Everyone else failed and had to resit they were asking me questions and how long I’d been an electrician. I’m not boasting I’m just making to point that if you study hard, work hard you can be as good as anyone it’s not all about time served  ? Not trying to be antaganistic just feel everyone should be judged individually on merit ? 

 

[phil d]

Totally agree with all you have to say I’ve just worked for one bloke for three months for free ! To get some experience. I was never looking for a get rich quick scheme just felt some qualifications would open a few doors ? How wrong can that be ? 

On the point of me being allowed to take the 2391 ? 15 guys were on my course most experienced electricians I was the only one who passed the written exam first time. Everyone else failed and had to resit they were asking me questions and how long I’d been an electrician. I’m not boasting I’m just making to point that if you study hard, work hard you can be as good as anyone it’s not all about time served  ? Not trying to be antaganistic just feel everyone should be judged individually on merit ? 

I see where you're coming from, and like I said earlier I wasn't having  a dig at you, but the problem with an exam is it's always cut and dried, for example they ask for one answer, is it A,B,or C, and they'll only accept lets say A, as being the right answer, in actual fact there are times when B, or C, could also be correct, it's a bit like the wiring regs, they are a guide only, not set in stone, yet you'd be surprised how many people say something is wrong because it isn't to the letter of the regs. There's loads of times that I and many others have done things that are not strictly to the letter of the regs, but that doesn't mean they are unsafe, it's down to knowledge and experience. I sincerely hope you get where you want to be, I really do, and when you do get there you'll have the experience to understand exactly what I mean.

 

[Jay68]

Thanks Phil I do totally understand and accept your points. I did have many conversations and challenged the trainer on the mock exam questions / answers as I agree it’s not always as cut & dry as A B or C ! Real world never the same as any classroom. Rant over I promise ! It’s just frustration bubbling to the surface.

Kind regards to all 

 

[Sharpend]

Jay what area are you in? What are you prepared to do. i.e. work away?

I would be tempted to go freelance with your original skillset - surveyor/ project planner, infact I'd suggest approaching Lidl as they are throwing up shops left right and centre at the minute so may bear fruit for you, then once you are back in earnings then look at the options of improving your skillset/qualifications in our trade? remember its easier to get work when you are in work.

 

[Jay68]

I’m in Birmingham. I’m happy to work anywhere if I can make it work financially. Thanksfor the steer on Lidl one small problem is they work like Aldi. They have one store model then buy a plot of land and build it ! They don’t employ store planners as they don’t need them as they have only one layout to follow appreciate the advise though , all the best to you 

 

[UNG]

Totally agree with all you have to say I’ve just worked for one bloke for three months for free ! To get some experience. I was never looking for a get rich quick scheme just felt some qualifications would open a few doors ? How wrong can that be ? 

On the point of me being allowed to take the 2391 ? 15 guys were on my course most experienced electricians I was the only one who passed the written exam first time. Everyone else failed and had to resit they were asking me questions and how long I’d been an electrician. I’m not boasting I’m just making to point that if you study hard, work hard you can be as good as anyone it’s not all about time served  ? Not trying to be antaganistic just feel everyone should be judged individually on merit ? 

There were a lot of "experienced electricians" on the 2391 course and exam I sat back in 2006 most had little or no interest in passing the exam, when it came to the exam there were plenty who were resitting it for the 2nd and 3rd time.

As a closed book exam the hardest part is committing to memory all the info you need and if you look at enough past papers it is a very easy exam to pass it is then just down to how you use it in the real world

 

[phil d]

Thanks Phil I do totally understand and accept your points. I did have many conversations and challenged the trainer on the mock exam questions / answers as I agree it’s not always as cut & dry as A B or C ! Real world never the same as any classroom. Rant over I promise ! It’s just frustration bubbling to the surface.

Kind regards to all 

I fully understand you're frustration mate, I came out of full time a few years ago due to Mental Health issues, I have depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, I know my job and to be honest I am quite good at it. However, it's virtually impossible to get a full-time job now due to the stigma surrounding Mental health! You get an interview and it's going fine until you mention MH problems, I sometimes wonder if I'd stand a better chance of a job if I told them the reason I hadn't worked for a few years was that I was in prison.

 

[Sharpend]

This is the problem Phil with the way MH is dealt with. We are regularly told that 8 out of 10 people will suffer with MH issues , so if it’s so common then why is it such an issue for employers, you’d think on those statistics the actual useful workforce in an employers eyes is no where near enough to sustain a healthy business? 

They'll be a time when the MH experts actually learn to portray the actual issues of MH and it’s affects for an indidivdual and support that person with job applications etc rather than using blanket coverage which will inevitably put employers off. If the employers don’t understand MH and the various prognosis outcomes then they are going to be reluctant to chance a person with MH. 

Yet evey site I work on has posters telling me to watch my colleagues for signs of MH related issues?? 

 

[Jay68]

Hi Phil so sorry to hear that you’re having so many problems returning to work too! We’re constantly being told that the country has a skills gap and we’ve good blokes like you and I who through a turn of events find ourselves on the job market yet employers just don’t give you a break !

I truely hope that you get work soon and wish you all the very best on your return to work ! I’m sure if we both keep knocking on enough doors one my eventually open all the best mate ! 

 

[Tony S]

I had to retire at 57 due to a 2nd nervous breakdown. Over work and pressure just became too much. On call 24-7-365 knocked the stuffing out of me.

My MH problems now mean I can’t go out unaccompanied, I've just become a wreck of my own self.

Gone are the days of shouting at plant operators or fiddling a PLC on the fly to get a plant running. When I was in R&D, altering a program was common place. Crunch, bang, Oh $h1t, didn’t bother me, it was just a part of life.

I’m a ghost of my former self.

 

[rapparee]

I had to retire at 57 due to a 2nd nervous breakdown. Over work and pressure just became too much. On call 24-7-365 knocked the stuffing out of me.

My MH problems now mean I can’t go out unaccompanied, I've just become a wreck of my own self.

Gone are the days of shouting at plant operators or fiddling a PLC on the fly to get a plant running. When I was in R&D, altering a program was common place. Crunch, bang, Oh $h1t, didn’t bother me, it was just a part of life.

I’m a ghost of my former self.

Sorry to hear that Tony 

I thought you had a better handle on things.

I remember one time blowing the shyte out of a motor, (I wired it in delta instead of star) I was disappointed with myself, I was told by the production manager, "the man who never made a mistake never made f*** all, now source a replacement and you don't go home until that machine is ready to run for the night shift".

I ended up working to nine o'clock that night. The fitter also made a mistake on that job. But when we came in the next morning, there was a full nights production and all was forgotten.