King Arthur Scargill

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Any thoughts on the "news" that it turns out that Arthur Scargill was EXACTLY correct when he said that the government [who said that they merely wanted to close 20 odd "unprofitable" pits] actually had a "hit list" of 70 pits, which as we all can now see, was exactly right...

john

 
Two sides to a story.

It was VERY wrong the amount of power the unions had in the 70's. Are you old enough to remember working then, the 3 day week, the high inflation etc?

It was also very wrong to close the pits and not even just mothball them on care and custody so they could be opened later.

It was a problem that needed solving, but it was solved the wrong way.

 
Two sides to a story.

It was VERY wrong the amount of power the unions had in the 70's. Are you old enough to remember working then, the 3 day week, the high inflation etc?

It was also very wrong to close the pits and not even just mothball them on care and custody so they could be opened later.

It was a problem that needed solving, but it was solved the wrong way.
Unions? Can't even remember which one it was but as an apprentice I used to get an extra day off on top of every Bank Holiday! So at Easter 6 days off!

 
These things are a minefield of unknown facts , personal  motives, the grinding of axes etc .   .  Why not sell these pits off to private enterprise ?  No one ever came forward with an offer .  

The sight of turning the police against workers does 'nt stand well with me .

However I'm of an age to remember the unions and their leaders trying to control  and excercise their power against whatever government was in power.

I never joined the union until I was "On the Tools"   it was the reformed ETU .

 As an apprentice my eyes were opened by a couple of things , the old ETU  was under communist control and I was'nt happy about it so didn't join.  The shop steward  wanted me to join but knew I didn't have to while an apprentice ..........he then threatened me that if I didn't join at the appropriate time I could , in his words ,  F*** off  because no one would work with me .  

          I looked round at my so called workmates the next day and decided on a change to the contracting industry as a JIB apprentice at 17 and glad I did.

The ETU was reformed , communists gone and a democratic voting system installed so I joined ,  but to be honest , it was just to allow entry into the "closed shop" car factories with the contracting firm.  

Some years later , the firm I was with took on a job at a nation wide known company ,  a giant furnace meltdown , suspected sabotage, we were to work round the clock , re-install & also report any sabotage findings  , along with our rewind dept.  

We put a team together and reported , on day one at the main gate of the works ,    were herded into a large empty room to await some official from the ( Reformed yet again) ..EEPTU  to have our union cards inspected .

    After something approaching a 3 hour wait, some bloke appeared,  straight from the Peter Sellers's film   "I'm Alright Jack"  .

"Who is the supervisor?"  

"Thats me " I reply.

" You'll have to wait for someone from our supervisory section to sanction your card "  

" Its the same card as everyone else"  

"Makes no difference , you're management , we don't deal with you "    ( New one on me )    Finally get onto the meltdown site about lunchtime. 

 
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I actually joined the EETPU as an apprentice (after the plumbers and electrical unions had amalgamated)

I remained a member all my time, but a year after finishing my time, I resigned from the union because the shop steward had told us a blatant lie at one years pay negotiations meeting, and I don't like being lied to.

Strangely nobody ever said a thing to me or behaved differently to me once I was out of the union. Perhaps my fellow workers never knew?

 
They probably didn't know Dave.

I was working away in the Electronics plant and someone said theres a union meeting at 10, I said whats that then, everyone stopped what they were doing in the workshop, 30 minutes later my then boss turned up and said come with me you cannot work here.

 
Funny how all these "entities" that the unions "ruined" were quickly bought up by the foreigners...

I know people say in the bad old days it would take 6 weeks for the GPO to fix your phone, but at least one they had, you could afford to use it......

If the unions were still as they were, you electricians would not have to worry about 5WW's or other undesirables either... Properly qualified, in the union, or no job....

john...

As for no-one wanted to buy the pits, read the story of the welsh heroes of Tower colliery......

Was the same when they ruined BR [beeching and all that] They deliberately sold of parcels of land where sections of the tracks were to prevent any "private enterprise" reopening them...

john...

 
Not quite the case Apprenti .... :(    I can remember the bigger contractors on large engineering sites in this area ,  would employ fabricators and welders alongside their sparks , to install miles of heavy guage tray & trunking with thousands of brackets  etc.     Being unionised they had to join , so were given "Skilled" EEPTU cards  same as the rest of us ...to get over that problem   .  

         After say, the  two year job was finished , those guys magically became electricians on following contracts and continued from there. 

 
My rant aside... they have too much power but no real power at all unless that is you are a member of a union then they have your money. 

You would not have to worry about 5ww's but you would have to pay a union for the right to be an electrician and abide by their rules no matter how silly!

IMO They are just as bad is these sh***ag politicians but with less power... What did Bob Crow have for lunch today? sure as hell wasn't a Gregs!

Oops started ranting again :innocent

 
Most of us older ones can remember the closed shop.  When you needed something trivial doing that was "another trade" you had to wait for another tradesman to come and do it. If you dared to do another man's trade, no matter how small the job, you could bring the whole place out on strike.

That's how stupid it all was, and that's what needed to be fixed. But I still maintain it was "fixed" in the wrong way.

 
I've never been a member of any union & to date I've had no problems crossing a line. :innocent

 
I worked for Haden Young back then in 'the good old days' and we had weekly EETPU meetings on every site which Seeman (cant remember his first name, may have been Bob) who was the top guy  covering southern UK used to attend. I still remember  his answer to every question was 'we'll shelf that one till later' they never got answered.

The only way you could get transferred off crap jobs to ones with more overtime was to put in for union election on that site offering to be shop steward. You then always got transferred off the following Friday.

I also remember one speech by Seeman which got the whole of Hadens out on strike was down to lighting troughs. On a few jobs the ceiling fixers mounted a top hat shaped part of the ceiling with the rest of the framework. We then  connected the conduits, wired and fitted the gear trays in these troughs. The unions claimed it was stealing electricians work as they should be mounting them, what next socket boxes fixed in the walls by the brickies and calling them socket troughs.

Oh my, that was getting on for 40 years ago   :eek:

 
I joined UCATT more on a whim than anything about 15 years ago. Site I was on at the time was heavily represented. The site rep was a good guy and as I wasn't in any union then I signed up figuring the free legal advice might be handy etc.

First and only time I came to use them was when I was considering taking up a grievance against an employer (enforced changes to contract etc). The rep came in. Said my case was watertight & that they would back me 100%..............then followed up that he would think I'd be down the road within 3 months if I went ahead (I backed down btw). Bloke pretty much broke down in front of me and went on to tell me how he'd just come from a firm where they were laying off HUNDREDS, all members which he's been speaking to. Think the stress of listenening to all these peoples woes had got to him! I bought him a coffee etc. Seems the unions have a lot less teeth now which is good/bad.

But I do get a diary every year still!

:lol:

 
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Unions as most entities in this country start with a collective of good intentions, only to go awry when the mystical money for those in charge starts to lead? Then the collective intentions become one mans campaign.

 
Wasn't there a rumpus a couple of years ago about Arthur's posh flat in London and whether one of the unions should keep paying for it?

 
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