Kitchen question/suggestions needed

[russ9898]

Hi,

Recently done some work on kitchen (installed kitchen ring and moved cooker circuit)

Just had a phone call from the guy i did the work for said the kitchen fitters are having trouble with the dishwasher socket as the integrated dishwasher goes so far back that when a plug is in the socket the dishwasher wont go far enough back.

The socket in question is a double socket on a DP switch off the ring. (one socket for dishwasher, one for washing machine)

This was a bit of a bodge anyway as originally it was only supposed to be a dishwasher there, then they realized they hadn't planned in a place for the washer to go so had to put a double socket in.

The kitchen fitter has suggested fitting spurs for the low levels which will allow the dish washer to go back far enough.

The problem with this is i then have a spur of a spur of the dp...if that makes sense?

Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Thanks, Russ

Edit - Could a mod move this to the Q&A section please. Sorry about posting in the wrong section

 

[Mr Sworld]

If the original double socket is a ring main then you can blank it off. Then run down to a twin double or two single backboxes. Fit a 13A fcu and a 13A socket next to it and then run to another 13A single.

 

[kme]

Yes m8:

When we do these; we always put the sockets in an adjacent cupboard. This allows access for testing, as well as isolation for servicing etc.

Putting the sockets behind the appliances is, to my mind, asking for problems.

I`d move the socket in question into a base unit, if it were me.

HTH

KME

 

[Mr Sworld]

KME has a very valid point. Fitting outlets directly behing water-using appliances is a bit iffy!

 

[seajayess]

Fitting a FCU and then running 2 sinlge 13 amp sockets is within the regs but you are then running the 2 appliances from a 13 amp FCU and a dishwasher and washing machine will require more than 13 amps. Is it possible to add 2 more sockets to the circut, if it is a ring you could crimp the new cable to excisting and carry on the ring around the new points and put the crimps inside the double box and put a blank over it. CJS

 

[Mr Sworld]

Fitting a FCU and then running 2 sinlge 13 amp sockets is within the regs but you are then running the 2 appliances from a 13 amp FCU and a dishwasher and washing machine will require more than 13 amps. Is it possible to add 2 more sockets to the circut, if it is a ring you could crimp the new cable to excisting and carry on the ring around the new points and put the crimps inside the double box and put a blank over it. CJS

True. However the installation was already going to be run from a double 13A socket which is only rated for 13A not 26A. It's a diversity question, will they both be on together? You could run the spurs in 4mm and let the 13A fuse absorb the overload. Fuses will not blow instantly when run slightly higher than their rated value it'll take some time for them to go.

Not the best method I must admit but needs must when the devil drives....

 

[a1]

How's it going up T'North then Mr Sworld?

 

[Mr Sworld]

How's it going up T'North then Mr Sworld?

Been kicking around with some old friends in Bradford then off to 'Sexhow' tomorrow.

Now is that a real placename or just a statement! :^O

Got my camera with me so should be returning with pictures of gennies and lot's of temporary three-phase supplies. There should be some PA and LX photos as well. :x (My original love!)

 

[a1]

Good Man Mr Sworld - Look forward to seeing them.

 

[seajayess]

Have just looked through the original post , thought it was on the ring, we have the same trouble with kitchen fitters to reliant on software even after they come out and mark the kitchen out they then come back to fit it nothing like the original design CJS :_|

 

[russ9898]

Hmmmm....

Existing socket is simply on a 2.5 off a double pole switch.

Reason for not placing socket in an adjacent cupboard is because to the right of dishwasher/washer space is the back door, to the left is the sink. So i was left with very little choice.

Theyve now reduced the size of the sink unit cupboard to accomodate the washer. Its all very confusing and a bit of a hash up lol

Typically its all changed about 4 weeks after i second fixed, the plasteres were in about 6 weeks ago. My only hope is to fish some 4mm down the back of the plasterboard from the dp to lowish level, put a 13amp spur with a further 2 13amp spurs off that i think.

Just gonna be a ******* if a fuse pops. hmmmmmm or see if the the customer is willing to swap the DP for a fused spur.

aghhhhhhhhhhhhh bloody customers lol

 

[kme]

Put the socket within the sink unit! No reason why not!!

r.e. Russ`s query - IF the W/mc is a dual pipe jobbie, and property has combi fitted, then washing machine + D/W are highly unlikely to use >13A.

r.e. Mr. Sworld - Bradford? I was born there mate. lived up there for 20 odd years. Don`t go complaining about any of my old jobs, now.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi,Recently done some work on kitchen (installed kitchen ring and moved cooker circuit)

Just had a phone call from the guy i did the work for said the kitchen fitters are having trouble with the dishwasher socket as the integrated dishwasher goes so far back that when a plug is in the socket the dishwasher wont go far enough back.

The socket in question is a double socket on a DP switch off the ring. (one socket for dishwasher, one for washing machine)

This was a bit of a bodge anyway as originally it was only supposed to be a dishwasher there, then they realized they hadn't planned in a place for the washer to go so had to put a double socket in.

The kitchen fitter has suggested fitting spurs for the low levels which will allow the dish washer to go back far enough.

The problem with this is i then have a spur of a spur of the dp...if that makes sense?

Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Thanks, Russ

Edit - Could a mod move this to the Q&A section please. Sorry about posting in the wrong section

Got to ask some stooopid question's here..

Maybe me brains stoppin or I've missed somthing..?

is the socket Flush or Surface mounted??? ?:|

I don't know many appliances that cannot accommodate a "Flush" fitted plug socket at the back .. ?:|

cuz they normally allow a bit for pipework & airflow.. :|

or alternately..

Can't you just sink the socket deeper into the wall???? ?:|

Also what's wrong with a FCU connected back to a ring via a DP switch??? ?:|



those I my immediate thoughts

Probably think of somthing else when less drink influence tomorrow!:8}

 

[binky]

There is of course the horrible answer of leaving the socket under the cupboard on the floor, behind the kick board - nice big gap under there. So that's FCU to flex to pattress box with double socket - sort of hard wired extension lead.

You could also extend appliance lead to reach d/skt in space under kitchen sink.

I hasten to add I don't do these things normally, but needs must..... ]

 

[binky]

Hmmmm....Typically its all changed about 4 weeks after i second fixed, the plasteres were in about 6 weeks ago..

aghhhhhhhhhhhhh bloody customers lol

There is an element of the customer didn't inform you of changes, ergo, if you have to damage plaster etc, it's not your fault. Sometimes you need to learn to stand your ground when others cause you problems.

For instance yesterday the customer requested under unit lighting in the kitchen I'm working on, having previously refused the suggestion. At this point the units are fitted, and walls tiled. They changed their minds when I pointed out all the problems it would cause - which weren't that insurmountable, just very annoying.

 

[russ9898]

Ill try and answer all the questions above, appologies if ive missed any.

The socket is flush mounted, which surprised me when they rung as ive never had this problem before. According to the customer they've had 2 kitchen fitters who have both said they will have the same problem.

Although i cant help but remember how rough kitchen fitters electrical work is and wonder if simply plugging something in is to easy for them lol.

Push comes to shove the socket in sink unit idea could be a go'er, im just never that keen to put sockets under there what with incoming water supply's etc.

As for the socket on the floor idea...im cringing at the idea of that although as you say it might be a case of needs must. I'll have to pop round the customers one night this week and refresh my memory on where everything is and look for some alternate solutions.

If they're not careful theyll have a 26mm hole in the worktop with the dishwasher and washer flex coming through and going to the plug above the worktop

 

[russ9898]

There is an element of the customer didn't inform you of changes, ergo, if you have to damage plaster etc, it's not your fault. Sometimes you need to learn to stand your ground when others cause you problems. For instance yesterday the customer requested under unit lighting in the kitchen I'm working on, having previously refused the suggestion. At this point the units are fitted, and walls tiled. They changed their minds when I pointed out all the problems it would cause - which weren't that insurmountable, just very annoying.

^ Funnily enough the under unit lighting is all ive got to go back to on this job. Other than that its complete.

But, they are really nice people and certainly looked after me during any work ive done for them so i dont really resent going back to the job just a bit of a pain in the ass if nothing else.

 

[binky]

Ill try and answer all the questions above, appologies if ive missed any.The socket is flush mounted, which surprised me when they rung as ive never had this problem before.

As for the socket on the floor idea...im cringing at the idea of that although as you say it might be a case of needs must. I'll have to pop round the customers one night this week and refresh my memory on where everything is and look for some alternate solutions.

If they're not careful theyll have a 26mm hole in the worktop with the dishwasher and washer flex coming through and going to the plug above the worktop

I'm surprised you have a problem with a flush socket, most appliances have a 3-4" gap at the base to avoid cables etc which can be utilised by turning socjket 90 degrees to avoid problems with pre-moulded plugs (oooh I know some terrible practices :8}). Have a good look at back of appliance.

Socket trailing on floor sounds worse than it is, but does make good use of un-used space under cabinets - not really any different to using extension leads, but embarrasing to mention on a professional website:8}:8}

Plug above worktop - strange but tha'ts how my tumbledrier is fitted, only I used a 10mm hole after cutting molded plug off and replacing with standard plug top:8}:8}:8}.

I hasten to add I did not fit my kitchen or re-wire my house and have been forced into such embarrassing situations by the tw*t who did X(X( X(

I would dearly like to thump the prat who did to turn X( into :^O :^O:^O

 

[russ9898]

im suprised about the clearance issue as well tbh but im just going off what ive been told 3rd hand really, what the customer got told by kitchen fitter. Ive got a couple of weeks to go back and sort it before the kitchen fitter arrives although a floor socket sounds appealing, id just feel a bit rough lol

 

[cheggers]

The kitchen fitters are correct the integrated appliances have not got enough room behind for a socket and plug . I would change the double socket behind and fit two fcu the cable will take 27amps the most the appliances will take is 13amps each thus 26amps. now wheres the problem. someone said what happens if the fuse blows in the fcu,there problem not yours, and to be honest when was the last time you blow a 13amp fuse. I for one cant remember.