Leakage

[batty]

No, the question was:And I'm not having it that all the items, listed on this thread, leak current to earth - I think this is another myth

I'll give you the computer and some other electronic devices - but not the rest.

If all the items listed leaked between 1 mA and 2 mA in normal operation then you would have to comply with 543.7.1.3 in pretty much every installation you did.

543.7.1.3 The wiring of every final circuit and distribution circuit intended to supply one or more items of equipment, such that the total protective conductor current is likely to exceed 10 mA, shall have a high integrity protective connection complying with one or more of the following:

It then goes on to list 5 requirements - Pg 133 BRB

So, there is no way that those items are going to leak enough current to trip an RCD unless they were actually faulty.

I have an IR tester - thats good enough

Tested my kettle this morning - hot and cold - 500v L & N connected together tested to earth - >299 Mohm

Not a chance of leaking to earth

So are you saying that all elements unless they are greater than 299mohms are faulty I don't get that. When I did my training 15 years ago I was told not to put cookers, immersion heaters through Rcd's as they have a tendancy to trip them. Since 17th edition I have had to replace countless elements due to them tripping Rcd's they are not faulty just slightly leaky and if it was not for 17th edition they would not have had to be replaced.

 

[ADS]

So are you saying that all elements unless they are greater than 299mohms are faulty I don't get that.

No, but they'd have to be as low as 230 K ohms to give a leakage of 1mA - and that's faulty.

........not faulty just slightly leaky...... .

If they are leaky, they are faulty - they don't leak current under normal operation

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Look, I might have got the wrong end of the stick here. If I have, I apologise.

I read the opening question as meaning which appliances leak current to earth under normal conditions (i.e. computers), thereby causing intermittent RCD tripping.

If what he meant was which appliances are likely, when faulty, to leak current to earth and cause the RCD to trip - then the post could have been answered in one word - Any.........because any electrical appliance can leak current to earth under fault conditions.

 

[ianmacd]

No, but they'd have to be as low as 230 K ohms to give a leakage of 1mA - and that's faulty.If they are leaky, they are faulty - they don't leak current under normal operation

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Look, I might have got the wrong end of the stick here. If I have, I apologise.

I read the opening question as meaning which appliances leak current to earth under normal conditions (i.e. computers), thereby causing intermittent RCD tripping.

If what he meant was which appliances are likely, when faulty, to leak current to earth and cause the RCD to trip - then the post could have been answered in one word - Any.........because any electrical appliance can leak current to earth under fault conditions.

I agree with ADS here. How can a hair dryer (that's most likely double insulated and has no cpc) leak current to earth? Or the toaster? Sandwich maker?

 

[revjames]

I agree with ADS here. How can a hair dryer (that's most likely double insulated and has no cpc) leak current to earth? Or the toaster? Sandwich maker?

I have been called out on more than one occasion to an office or commercial premises where they say "its tripped". The RCD feeding the ring has indeed tripped and very often its the kitchen area - a piece of burnt toast/ hot cross bun fragment still in the toaster (carbon is a good conductor) bridging between the element and the chassis.

 

[NozSpark]

I have been called out on more than one occasion to an office or commercial premises where they say "its tripped". The RCD feeding the ring has indeed tripped and very often its the kitchen area - a piece of burnt toast/ hot cross bun fragment still in the toaster (carbon is a good insulator) bridging between the element and the chassis.

Are you sure you mean't that???? :innocent

 

[revjames]

Are you sure you mean't that???? :innocent

Just checking that people are on their toes even if it is sunday afternoon....

 

[ianmacd]

I have been called out on more than one occasion to an office or commercial premises where they say "its tripped". The RCD feeding the ring has indeed tripped and very often its the kitchen area - a piece of burnt toast/ hot cross bun fragment still in the toaster (carbon is a good conductor) bridging between the element and the chassis.

That may be but the statement most people agreed with was:

All heating elements are leaky and often its only when several are all in circuit at the same time you get a total leakage thats exceeds the 24 m A or so threshold for 30 m A RCDs ( as shown by ramp test)

That is the fact that is in dispute not faults as you describe Rev.

 

[revjames]

Ian,

The opening post on this thread asked "What appliances in domestic houses are most likely to have earth leakage causing an RCD to trip?"

Toaster elements by their nature can be even more 'leaky' when theres a bit of carbon wedged against it...

"I agree with ADS here. How can a hair dryer (that's most likely double insulated and has no cpc) leak current to earth? Or the toaster? Sandwich maker?"

You were asking the question how can a toaster leak current to earth.......

Whats your beef?

 

[ianmacd]

You seem to have completely missed the point. A statement way made saying ALL (using caps so you understand what I am emphasising here) heating elements leak. Your toaster example is not on in support of this as thats a FAULT not normal operation or are you saying ALL heating elements have some burnt toast stuck in them?

 

[revjames]

You seem to have completely missed the point. A statement way made saying ALL (using caps so you understand what I am emphasising here) heating elements leak. Your toaster example is not on in support of this as thats a FAULT not normal operation or are you saying ALL heating elements have some burnt toast stuck in them?

well thanks for clearing that up. Dont think you would get burnt toast in a kettle element. Now your just being silly..........

 

[Lurch]

Dont think you would get burnt toast in a kettle element. Now your just being silly..........

You should see my kitchen after breakfast!

 

[ianmacd]

well thanks for clearing that up. Dont think you would get burnt toast in a kettle element. Now your just being silly..........

Can people really be that stupid? Stop posting until you understand, please.

Someone has again made false claims of fact. That is complete rubbish. You just do not seem able to understand the point so how about staying out of it?

 

[revjames]

Ian I was trying to be polite and friendly after your several rather rude posts. How dare you ask me to stop posting. have you suddenly been made chief moderator of this site? I came here because I like the friendly attitude and banter. You are a turn off.....