LED Batton

[John11k]

Hello

im new hear, need some advice, I have an old house, love working around the place, I'm converting my attic at present, I need to fit som LED baton lights, 

can I come with a 1.5 twin and earth from my trip board, to a junction box ( bakelite)  under my floor space , and then ( live) to switch and switch to baton 

and the neutral direct to baton  ?   

 

[Evans Electric]

Yes  .

Could use 1.00mm  also.

Could also go  Twin /E  to switch  ...then twin/E  to lights .    Forget J/box.

 

[John11k]

Thank you for reply, reason behind junction box was , I have it to take from should I need an extra light somewhere else,  ! 

Sorry for been stupid, ! But you say twin/E to switch , so live in to common and live out to light  from L1 and neutral straight through to light  ? 

Thanks 

john

 

[Evans Electric]

Yes ,  connect the neutral straight through  if you choose  that method .  

 

[John11k]

Thank you, 

very much appreciate your taking time to answer me, 

as I get through this old place I’m sure ill have more questions, 

Have a good weekend,   John

 

[Evans Electric]

No problem ,     I should have included our standard phrase to DIYers.      Make sure you switch the power OFF  .

 

[John11k]

Thank you sir,,

One thing I’m always aware of , !! Safety first,,    

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hello

im new hear, need some advice, I have an old house, love working around the place, I'm converting my attic at present, I need to fit som LED baton lights, 

can I come with a 1.5 twin and earth from my trip board, to a junction box ( bakelite)  under my floor space , and then ( live) to switch and switch to baton 

and the neutral direct to baton  ?   

Just as an aside....

If this LED, baton, batten is a fitting with an integral non-replaceable lamp..  Be sure to only purchase an item that has a manufactures guarantee not just an "average lifespan"...

LED's can 'AND DO' fail prematurely..  So if you cannot easily replace just the lamp, you are looking at replacing the whole fitting...

I have learnt the hard way to avoid supplying lights with built-in, non-replaceable LEDs...  Too many call backs from un-happy customers when lamps fail too early!!!!

'

far easier if a light fitting just accepts a removable LED lamp.

Swap lamp.. take naff lamp back to supplier for refund!  

Guinness

 

[Davethsparky]

I have learnt the hard way to avoid supplying lights with built-in, non-replaceable LEDs...  Too many call backs from un-happy customers when lamps fail too early!!!!

I almost always fit integrated fittings instead of led lamps, and haven't had the same experience as you.

I always fit what I consider to be good quality fittings and I've had very few failures over the years which I've had to replace. 

 

[Evans Electric]

I have learnt the hard way to avoid supplying lights with built-in, non-replaceable LEDs...  Too many call backs from un-happy customers when lamps fail too early!!!!

Interesting !    I 've   just been made aware of  some LED modulars I fitted at the printers  2 years ago  .   One has carped out , another two are turning yellow in the centre . 

I almost always fit integrated fittings instead of led lamps, and haven't had the same experience as you.

I always fit what I consider to be good quality fittings and I've had very few failures over the years which I've had to replace. 

Also interesting .    Is Specs  buying at the Pound Shop.? 

 

[Davethsparky]

Interesting !    I 've   just been made aware of  some LED modulars I fitted at the printers  2 years ago  .   One has carped out , another two are turning yellow in the centre . 

Also interesting .    Is Specs  buying at the Pound Shop.? 

I wouldnt like to comment on what they are buying or where they are buying it. 

My personal experience is that the fittings I use have a very low failure rate, this goes hand in hand with a higher than average price tag. This obviously partly comes down to what a customer is happy to pay. 

The downlights I use, eco600s by ecostar, are £27+vat each for a standard unit, the 3hr emergency version or 0-10 dimming etc cost a bit more. 

 

[John11k]

Dave the spark

and

special location 

Im hoping to only use these led Battons while I’m doing the work in the attic, I find the light very good from them,  

the attic converting I’m doing it all myself, so going to be a year or two , in between working ! 

I will be on the lookout in the mean time for something more suitable and better looking and longer lasting 

thank you guys, I really do appreciate all the help 

hope ye all have a good weekend

John

 

[ProDave]

Dave the spark

and

special location 

Im hoping to only use these led Battons while I’m doing the work in the attic, I find the light very good from them,  

the attic converting I’m doing it all myself, so going to be a year or two , in between working ! 

I will be on the lookout in the mean time for something more suitable and better looking and longer lasting 

thank you guys, I really do appreciate all the help 

hope ye all have a good weekend

John

I hope building control are aware of what you are doing and you have a structural engineer on board.

 

[kerching]

Integrated LED Downlights

my suppliers have two large dustbins full of failed Luxnar fittings

i added three to it last week along with ONE Brite Source unit

for the few that I do I am now going back to separates 

 

[John11k]

Thank you Kerching, appreciated ,, 

Pro Dave,  they sure do, it was passed as dormers, but nothing  has really been done to it for years, just left bare, two big junk rooms ,, re:lack of cash. !  But time now to brighten it up ,,,   Thanks 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

My personal experience is that the fittings I use have a very low failure rate, this goes hand in hand with a higher than average price tag. This obviously partly comes down to what a customer is happy to pay.

One the one hand we get spouted the mantra that LED lighting is more eco-friendly and has lower carbon footprint..

And the other bit is that as they use less energy we will be saving money on fuel costs... etc.. etc.. blah.. blah.. blah...

But..

(1) if you have got to pay stupidly expensive prices for something that is "reliable"  then the pay-back time scale can become outside of the lamps lifespan!

(so for that argument you may as well just stick with multiple less energy efficient lamps and go for the [higher consumption + cheaper lamps] being less than [lower consumption + expensive lights/fittings] savings!

And looking at the carbon footprint of manufacture...

If we compare integrated LEDS to separate fitting + lamps..  

Once you start multiplying the combinations of decorative finish & LED light output..

To get all the possible options you may want to use,  you would need to have a stupidly extortionate amount of integrated light fittings produced..

e.g.  consider some downlights;

Finish:-  Brass/Chrome/Satin/White

Style:-  Fixed/Movable

IP rated:-  Open lamp/Sealed lamp

And some GU10 LED's you may want inside them;

Kelvins:-  Cool/Warm/Daylight

Beam angle:-  30/60/90/120 degrees

Dimmable/Non-Dimmable

Light Output:-  {numerous combinations}

So if you multiply out all of the possible permutations....

manufactures will have to produce multiple options that may not be required...

Or if you want to offer your customer(s) the best choice solution to various applications..

Then separate fitting & lamps will almost always beat the pants off the limited options available with integrated fittings..

{as most manufactures won't produce a full range of specifications for every integrated LED light fitting they make}

The truth is anyone who has been in the real world and seen numerous applications of LED lighting will have seen failures...     

(unless they have been too engrossed in looking at texts & twitters etc.. on their phone so they never look up)

A pub up the road from where I live had several LED floodlights on the car-park flashing like strobes for several months last year..

I have lost count of the number of relatively new Cars/lorries/busses I have followed with LED elements in indicators/brake lights not working  

Out local Tesco has a large'ish covered two level car park...   Again numerous LED lights are either flashing or failed..

Been called to several customer who have integrated lights fitted by others, or existing when they moved in, that have failed...

Which can be a real pain in the rear if it is one or two out of a set of six and you can no longer get an exact match for the previous fitting as it is now obsolete..

Basic common sense and statistics would suggest  these issues cannot all be related to "cheaper quality" ...

More the fact that LEDs also need electronic driver circuitry and sometimes its the electronics that fails not necessarily the LED light element... 

The more bits That Can Fail will always produce higher failure rate!!

With over 20years+ since going self employed, I think I have seen a reasonable share of types, makes, and quality of light fittings..

Not only the stuff I supply..  sometimes fixing items supplied by others..  

I am now sure that the most eco-friendly, reliable, easily maintainable, maximum style options, economically viable etc..

solution with LED lighting has got to be separate lamp and light fitting.

opcorn     Guinness

Also..   even if an integrated LED light fitting has say a 3-year warranty....

If it does fail, not sure I know of nay manufactures who will pay back your labour costs for replacing the lamp...

rather than just providing a new lamp?

 

[Davethsparky]

One the one hand we get spouted the mantra that LED lighting is more eco-friendly and has lower carbon footprint..

And the other bit is that as they use less energy we will be saving money on fuel costs... etc.. etc.. blah.. blah.. blah...

But..

(1) if you have got to pay stupidly expensive prices for something that is "reliable"  then the pay-back time scale can become outside of the lamps lifespan!

(so for that argument you may as well just stick with multiple less energy efficient lamps and go for the [higher consumption + cheaper lamps] being less than [lower consumption + expensive lights/fittings] savings!

And looking at the carbon footprint of manufacture...

If we compare integrated LEDS to separate fitting + lamps..  

Once you start multiplying the combinations of decorative finish & LED light output..

To get all the possible options you may want to use,  you would need to have a stupidly extortionate amount of integrated light fittings produced..

e.g.  consider some downlights;

Finish:-  Brass/Chrome/Satin/White

Style:-  Fixed/Movable

IP rated:-  Open lamp/Sealed lamp

And some GU10 LED's you may want inside them;

Kelvins:-  Cool/Warm/Daylight

Beam angle:-  30/60/90/120 degrees

Dimmable/Non-Dimmable

Light Output:-  {numerous combinations}

So if you multiply out all of the possible permutations....

manufactures will have to produce multiple options that may not be required..

Manufacturers don't have to produce multiple permutations, if they limit their range then people will be fixed to buying a limited range. I've already mentioned the fittings I use, they don't have a non IP rated version and as far as I know don't have a non dimmable version. 

If we are to have any hope of saving the planet then people need to give up silly luxuries like choosing between satin brass or polished brass etc. 

I don't do domestic so I'm probably looking at this from a different perspective, but all the downlights I've fitted for years have been fixed with white trim. Some have had emergency packs fitted and some with 0-10V drivers. 

I always supply a few spare units to the customer to be kept on site just in case they need to be swapped out, as they are all connected via a plug and socket supplied with the light they can easily be changed in house if necessary, I've not yet had one need to be swapped though. 

 

[John11k]

Thanks guys

Lott's to think on ,

I haven’t made a final decision on what I want, but as it all comes together I’m sure something will arrive in my head, 

as for carbon footprint ! probably more of a footprint driving to the electric shop to get them, rather than run them !! 

Thanks for taking the time to help me guy

i owe ye all a Pint. !!