Led Ceiling panel wiring.

[Sharpend]

Sounds as though the rest of the install is being called into question, with the prices being quoted. 

What this thread proves is that giving advice in a positive and friendly manner to a person who is deceitful does no more than to invite criticism to the trade. 

By by you doing this type of work yourself under the guise of DIY, is very poor and a lowly act to undertake. You clearly have a disregard to the professional tradesman who has more than just fitting a few lights for some kids to account for. What about the safety aspect, the technical requirements never mind the insurance requirements. 

And you have a business yourself? Perhaps you'd be pretty peeved if I came down your street with a portable printing equipment because I could do it cheaper? 

 

[Murdoch]

The project is for a small youth club in London, on a council estate and has no money, no funding but some good kids.

We had outrageous quotes from some companies in the area , one was as I say £14,000 , another was £8,000.

I have the time to help but not the knowledge and I did my best to work it out , but I needed to be sure so that it is safe.

Once I have finished, I have arranged for a qualified electrician to come and inspect and test and give a certificate.

So the kids can have their club , safe and bright all for under £600.

So did I spit the dummy and am I too tight .. Probably.

Thanks once again especially Evans and Steptoe.

So based on the quotes you have, you expect a spark to sign off your work - good luck with that and you can do it for £600 - I seriously DON'T think so.

What panels are you trying to fit? and why?

Best option is to make a couple more calls

 

[kerching]

On a side note....is any emergency/escape lighting required to comply with  BS5266 etc

just wondering

 

[binky]

did these companies that quoted mention other things like out of date distribution boards or other electrical problems? 

Those prices seem rather high for the work discussed, but there is usually a reason for that. I also wouldn't be inclined to ask a sparky to sign off works without discussing this with then first. I am always quite happy to help social causes within reason, but only ever on an upfront basis. Put out something on Facebook or whatever other social media you use for the club asking for help, you might just find someone who will be prepared to do it for free.

 

[Evans Electric]

I didn't realise this was a commercial building , thought he was on about downlights  in a house. 

 

[Andy™]

I have the time to help but not the knowledge and I did my best to work it out , but I needed to be sure so that it is safe.

so since you are doing it, im assuming you have read all 400+ pages of 7671 to ensure that you will install everything safely and correctly. i also assume you have the relevant public liability insurance for doing the job? i also assume you have the required test equipment to test the work to ensure its compliant. and that you know how to fill in an electrical installation certificate. for some reason, i doubt any of that so its guaranteed that your work will not be compliant with wiring regulations. and then there is also electricity at work regulations, since you are not competent then you will be in breach of that by doing the work...

i also assume you have the local emergency number -  its 999, to be called either when something bursts into flames or someone is electrocuted. on the plus side,  you could request both at the same time

and the worst part of all this? its most likely some innocent person who would be killed / injured by your mistake. wouldnt be too bad if it was only you

 

[Murdoch]

Wonder what led panels he has bought? They do sound cheap!

 

[rapparee]

I can get ansell 600x600 for £40. The emergency lighting pod is another £35 although they are lettuced. I've installed them only to go into fault mode right away.

 

[Murdoch]

Hi 

I have 18 led panels to put into 3 rooms.

3 Lamps per switch  and I will use a 3 gang switch in one room (9 lamps) then a 2 gang 2 way switch in the next room and finally a 1 gang switch in the last room.

I have done a drawing of how I think I should do it but I am not completely certain I have it right.

Wiring Diagram

Would some one be kind to have a look and tell me where I am wrong.

I was also thinking of using 4 Terminal Maintenance Free Junction Box by Hager and would appreciate any advice.

Thanking you in advance .

Kind regards 

Steve 

PS .. I am 62 , have an 8 month old daughter and will be working until I am 98 now , otherwise I would pay for an electrician

Matey - is this community hall 3 phase? If so be VERY aware that 415 volts WILL kill you.

 

[Andy™]

Matey - is this community hall 3 phase? If so be VERY aware that 415 volts WILL kill you.

230 will kill you just as easily

 

[Murdoch]

230 will kill you just as easily

Not as quickly!

 

[ProDave]

Not as quickly!

or with as much certainty.
 

 

[Bassi]

Firstly thanks to all the people that provided helpful information.

I really did not want to go into detail on this but  I feel compelled to  explain a little more as it seems that I may have offended, worried and enraged some people.

1. The rooms are in a building I own and for which I do not charge anything for.

2. I had London Fire Brigade come and inspect and advise on all fire safety and I am following their recommendations.

3. I asked the local council building control people to come and have a look and they are happy.

4. I do have public liability insurance for my building and nothing on the policy forbids me from doing anything I want to my building.

5. I got several quotes from different qualified electricians and I only mentioned the worst ones.

It seems that many of the people quoting think they can throw the 17th edition around to increase their prices.

One of the quotes said in order to install the lights mentioned in this post, I would need to completely rewire the building and replace the plastic consumer unit with a metal one and quoted the regs to me.

The reality according to local building control officer is that he is happy if the plastic unit is in a cupboard and does not need to be replaced.

He also went on to say, that the reason they have the regs, is not because of the DIY electrician , but the tradesmen who they are trying to control and standardise and where most of the major issues come from.

He explained that Kitchen fitters can now do electrical work, with little training and certainly insufficient knowledge.

The list of insane reasons justifying some of the amazing quotes I have received have in some cases been comical.

I have completed the rewire today, based on one of the drawings done for me here  and found a "qualified" guy who checked my cable runs and then connected everything and issued a cert.

I came in a little over budget at £800 but that is great.

There are electricians and electrical companies out there that are only interested in money , one company for example charges £100 per hour with materials at trade plus 25%.

I find this obscene to be frank and they prey on the ill informed, old and frankly stupid.

I came here for some help and advice and some wonderful people here did that and I am truly grateful.

To those of you, that were mean , aggressive, rude and in one case slanderous I am truly saddened by your behaviour.

And to the guy that wants to come and print in my street, please do , I will even give you some tips and send customers your way to help you get started.

Have a great Christmas all and thanks once again, I truly appreciate the help.

Kind regards 

 

[Murdoch]

Firstly thanks to all the people that provided helpful information.

I really did not want to go into detail on this but  I feel compelled to  explain a little more as it seems that I may have offended, worried and enraged some people.

1. The rooms are in a building I own and for which I do not charge anything for.

2. I had London Fire Brigade come and inspect and advise on all fire safety and I am following their recommendations.

3. I asked the local council building control people to come and have a look and they are happy.

4. I do have public liability insurance for my building and nothing on the policy forbids me from doing anything I want to my building.

5. I got several quotes from different qualified electricians and I only mentioned the worst ones.

It seems that many of the people quoting think they can throw the 17th edition around to increase their prices.

One of the quotes said in order to install the lights mentioned in this post, I would need to completely rewire the building and replace the plastic consumer unit with a metal one and quoted the regs to me.

The reality according to local building control officer is that he is happy if the plastic unit is in a cupboard and does not need to be replaced.

He also went on to say, that the reason they have the regs, is not because of the DIY electrician , but the tradesmen who they are trying to control and standardise and where most of the major issues come from.

He explained that Kitchen fitters can now do electrical work, with little training and certainly insufficient knowledge.

The list of insane reasons justifying some of the amazing quotes I have received have in some cases been comical.

I have completed the rewire today, based on one of the drawings done for me here  and found a "qualified" guy who checked my cable runs and then connected everything and issued a cert.

I came in a little over budget at £800 but that is great.

There are electricians and electrical companies out there that are only interested in money , one company for example charges £100 per hour with materials at trade plus 25%.

I find this obscene to be frank and they prey on the ill informed, old and frankly stupid.

I came here for some help and advice and some wonderful people here did that and I am truly grateful.

To those of you, that were mean , aggressive, rude and in one case slanderous I am truly saddened by your behaviour.

And to the guy that wants to come and print in my street, please do , I will even give you some tips and send customers your way to help you get started.

Have a great Christmas all and thanks once again, I truly appreciate the help.

Kind regards 

As usual..... diyer comes on, gives hardly any useful information, then trys to spread the blame around...... as for the high prices, this would merely suggest to me that these companies simply didn't want your business....

 

[Sharpend]

May I take the opportunity to thank you for the invite, however due to excessive current business demand I shall decline at this point. 

I will say this, now that you have been forthcoming with the full picture then perhaps you'd have received a more warming response. 

I am somewhat flabbergasted by the approach of your local building control officer and would welcome the opportunity to challenge their perspective as they are clearly disillusioned. 

 

[Chewbacca]

oi, this is the friendly forum, you lot are more like Darth Vader

 

[Murdoch]

Its a bit ironic that the change from plastic CU's was driven by the LFB, and taken on board by BEAMA, who's members now wrap poor substandard plastic switches, MCB's and RCBO's in a metal wrapper.....

 

[Andy™]

and metal boards have already been proven to not contain a fire

 

[Murdoch]

and metal boards have already been proven to not contain a fire

For me, the obvious answer was a mains powered smoke alarm in the same room / cupboard as the fuseboard

Those 50 year old wooden wylex units never go up in smoke - but thats mainly because they were built with quality in mind...

 

[Sidewinder]

There is NO requirement for a metal CU in anywhere other than a domestic dwelling remember.