Light switch for hallway.

[terry1956]

Hi, can anyone please let me know if the switch on one end of the hallway should have live on L1,L2,L3 no matter which way the switch is switched. Thanks 

 

[steptoe]

It depends if you have the live  or the switched end

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

And what you are using to measure your "live" voltages...

And what you are referencing against, to measure your voltage..

Many cheap multi-meters will show "apparent phantom live wires"  due to induced voltages...

especially on 2-way switch wiring where long runs of switched conductors are sitting in the same cable as a live conductor..

Bit more info about how you are testing this switch would probably help..

AND..  why you are testing it?

have you replaced something that now has stopped working?

opcorn  

 

[ProDave]

More important question, is what exactly is wrong with your lighting that made you unscrew the switches and start measuring voltages in the first place.

Simple answer I would not expect all 3 switch terminals to be "live" at the same time.

 

[Fleeting]

I'm not seeing where he has stated about measuring voltages.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I'm not seeing where he has stated about measuring voltages.

No.... 

he was asking if all three terminals (L1, L2, L3),  of a two-way switch should all be live..

Which suggests to me, he has either..

(1) Used a neon screwdriver..

(2) Used some sort of meter..

(3) Used an approved voltage tester..  

(4) Used his finger and got a shock off every terminal..

(5) Used some other DIY method..

Hence some of the earlier questions to establish a bit more background about the reasoning behind their OP..

How do you suggest he thought all the terminals were live???

:C

 

[terry1956]

Thanks for your replies. I am using a fluke circuit tester. I am getting full mains voltage. The circuit as I can read it is as follows. There is a light switch in the hallway( this is the one without power to it) there is a further light switch in the garage which as the power to all three inlets. The switch’s are for two outside bulkhead lights. My belief is that power goes too the switch in the garage from the upstairs light circuit. The reason for testing is that the bulkhead lights are not getting power. It’s a stone build house and the cables have been ran between the inner and outer wall. 

 

[Fleeting]

Are these bulkheads two way switched from the switches you mention.

 

[ProDave]

Yes nowhere near enough information about how these 2 switches in 2 different locations relate to to the 2 outside lights.

Did they ever work properly?  If so what switch controlled what light and how?  and in what way are they not working to make you be investigating?

Otherwise we are just guessing.

 

[terry1956]

Hi, sorry to make it so hard, but with most of the wires behind stone walls it’s a bit hard to work out. The two outside lights come on and off together as a pair. The switch in the hallway and the one in the garage could switch them both on or off. They did work until an electrician started to play around with the wiring upstairs. Why he did that I don know. What I would like is just the hallway switch to turn on and off the lights. The hallway switch is a double button switch. One half as power and turns on and off the inner hallway lights, the second half worked the outside lights but as no power going to it now.  None of the outside lights have power to them now, again checked with meter. 

 

[Geoff1946]

If you had an electrician doing work and he's caused problems I would strongly recommend you call him back rather than dabbling. After all he'll know what he did and why

 

[kerching]

Ah....NOW we are getting a better picture,..if the electrician ( and I use that word in the loosest sense possible ) has naused it up then get him/her back to fix it,!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi, sorry to make it so hard, but with most of the wires behind stone walls it’s a bit hard to work out. The two outside lights come on and off together as a pair. The switch in the hallway and the one in the garage could switch them both on or off. They did work until an electrician started to play around with the wiring upstairs. Why he did that I don know. What I would like is just the hallway switch to turn on and off the lights. The hallway switch is a double button switch. One half as power and turns on and off the inner hallway lights, the second half worked the outside lights but as no power going to it now.  None of the outside lights have power to them now, again checked with meter. 

A majority of wiring on fault finding jobs is typically hidden, concealed, inaccessible.....

but still not generally very hard to solve...

It would be relatively easy to test continuity between both switches and both light fittings and the supply at the consumer unit..

to establish how it is wired..

And from that work out what is feasible to reconnect to get it working how you want it to...

Any competent electrician should be able to suss this out with a few dead-test between the various relevant terminals...

an appropriate test meter..  maybe a long-lead..  and a modest level of fault finding skills..

The problem we have is that there are numerous ways you can wire up lighting circuits to achieve the same result

Supply and/or neutral looped at fitting or switch or remote j/box, or mix of all three..

without seeing exactly what you have it really is a bit of guesswork..

Of course the elephant in the room are the questions....

What was the electrician supposed to be doing while he played with the upstairs wiring?

Have these lights ever worked?  or are they new just installed?

Also...

Is your fluke tester one that uses two probes?

If so where are you putting the second probe to reference your voltage?

And do you have a known proven good earth or neutral reference to read from?

Remember two probes on two wires both at 230v will show 0v difference between them if you are not referencing a known earth/neutral potential..

And..

What is your experience, background, electrical experience?

Guinness         

 

[Fleeting]

Might be helpful if you could show/explain the wiring at both switches and the light fittings. As above the simplest of switching arrangements can become a puzzle worthy of the Krypton Factor.

 

[ProDave]

Given this is an old house, my guess is the lighting is wired to a big central junction box and the "electrician" altered something in that, probably not intentionally.

BEST solution is get him back, only he knows what he changed.

 

[terry1956]

Thanks chaps,  yes it’s an old stone build house. Sad to say that the so skilled chap who undertook the work upstairs as disappeared from the area. I think that the best thing I can do is start again. There are so many things wrong with the wiring in the house, like the upstairs sockets wired to the downstairs lights in half the house and the kitchen sockets wired to the rear outside lights. This was done before I purchased the house. But the people I have paid to sort this out have been just as bad. So best to completely take the hit and fix it once and forever. Thank you for your interest.

 

[binky]

wiring outside lights off sockets is not unusual, but beyond that it sounds like you have bought the place off a bad DiYer, the sort that just connects anything and everything to the nearest available cable. 

Where abouts are you? Someone off the forum may be able to help. 

 

[ProDave]

It really is that bad, you need a rewire.

 

[Geoff1946]

Sad to say that the so skilled chap who undertook the work upstairs as disappeared from the area.

But the people I have paid to sort this out have been just as bad.

Maybe they are just horrified by what you are asking them to sort out and don't want anything to do with it.

Have you asked anyone to do a survey and make recommendations?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Thanks chaps,  yes it’s an old stone build house. Sad to say that the so skilled chap who undertook the work upstairs as disappeared from the area. I think that the best thing I can do is start again. There are so many things wrong with the wiring in the house, like the upstairs sockets wired to the downstairs lights in half the house and the kitchen sockets wired to the rear outside lights. This was done before I purchased the house. But the people I have paid to sort this out have been just as bad. So best to completely take the hit and fix it once and forever. Thank you for your interest.

Part of the problem you have is due to the complication that DIY electrical work is legally permitted.....

so anyone's mate down the pub can do all sorts of electrical odd-jobs with no legal obligations whatsoever..

and as long as it works and was cheap, some homeowners are happy with the bargain they got!

So some properties have wiring that is a complete nightmare to try and work on...

But any proper qualified person undertaking electrical work for monetary gain has 'health & safety at work' legal obligations to comply with..

and should follow the guidance of BS7671 wiring regulations..

and where applicable Part-P building regulations...

So if they come across one of these real nightmare installations...

and they perceive that a customer is only looking for a cheap solution, Not a compliant electrically safe solution... 

It can sometimes be not worth the hassle of trying to provide a realistic estimate/quote for a prospective job...

As Geoff suggests you may need someone to come in first to do a comprehensive inspection & test to evaluate the whole installation,

so they know exactly what all of the circuits supply and what bits do or don't comply with current wiring regulations...

From this info they stand a better chance to work out a plan of attack, (and costs), to achieve your requirements..

Guinness