Light switch move inspection

[vecnar]

Hi,

Needed to move light switch A that was linked to another light switch downstairs B, the light switch A was providing main positive voltage for all first-floor lights.

Initial plan was to cover the old light switch box with plasterboard but due to codes and regulations that I read about joining/extending cables is that junction box needs to be accessible for inspection.
I just used terminal connectors and placed them inside old light switch box as I couldn’t fit plastic junction box inside and couldn’t move junction box in the attic due to main positive cable length.

Cable run:

Metal studs are behind plasterboard and there is a wooden frame for radiator on another side obstructing cable run horizontally, so I ran 2 cables (3 brown and 2 earth) to the attic while using metal grommets in the metal stud.

Questions:

1. Is it up to the code/standards to leave terminal connectors inside old light switch plastic box covered with thin plastic enclosure as per photo?
2. Is it ok to link terminal connectors ground wire, I used 2.5mm cable to join as I couldn’t fit all in one terminal?
3. Do I need to attach cables in the attic to joist?

Looking to put osb floor boards in the attic but wanted to make sure i did it all up to the standards.

Thank you in advance,

Oleg

Edit: Added attic photo as i didn't have it with cables last night.

 

[Murdoch]

Dare I ask how you plan to test the changes?

 

[vecnar]

Hi,
These are the changes that I already made and I just want to make sure that I did everything to meet the standards especially terminal connectors being left as they are now on photo and if I need to secure cables in the attic to joist.
I have basic multimeter to test voltage, resistance/continuity if that would help.

 

[Fleeting]

What you have done is none too bad although preference these days is for push fit connectors. Does the circuit have additional 30ma rcd protection.

 

[ProDave]

https://electricianforum.co.uk/attachments/atticstudholes-jpg.13300/

Is that singles exiting the right hand bush?

 

[vecnar]

What you have done is none too bad although preference these days is for push fit connectors. Does the circuit have additional 30ma rcd protection.

Thank you for your comments. House circuit does have rcd but not on everything I think. I was just moving light switch/ extending cables so I assume it should. But I think the only way to find out for me is to open main distribution panel and see if this circuit is coming from the one with rcd as I do not have any other test equipment other than multimeter.
Do you think I should attach cables in the attic to joist?

 

[vecnar]

Is that singles exiting the right hand bush?

These are the cables for house alarm sensors. This picture is without the white cables.
Attached photo shows the cables that are going over them.

 

[Fleeting]

Thank you for your comments. House circuit does have rcd but not on everything I think. I was just moving light switch/ extending cables so I assume it should. But I think the only way to find out for me is to open main distribution panel and see if this circuit is coming from the one with rcd as I do not have any other test equipment other than multimeter.
Do you think I should attach cables in the attic to joist?

Turn all rcds off if the lights remain on then they do not. Any additions or alterations are almost certainly likely to require it in a dwelling.

 

[vecnar]

Turn all rcds off if the lights remain on then they do not. Any additions or alterations are almost certainly likely to require it in a dwelling.

Thank you for explaining simple way to test if it is on rcd circuit or not, I will do it tomorrow as evening is not the best time for family without electricity.
Regarding rcd requirements on alterations, if the circuit is not on rcd what should be done, do I change mcb for light circuit that has rcd?
I was hoping to finish attic floor tomorrow and would like to know if I need to secure cables to joist, would you know if there is a need in my case, I assume i can use cable clip and a hammer if it is the case?
Have a good evening

 

[ProDave]

Regarding rcd requirements on alterations, if the circuit is not on rcd what should be done, do I change mcb for light circuit that has rcd?

Change the lighting MCB for an rcbo

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi,
These are the changes that I already made and I just want to make sure that I did everything to meet the standards especially terminal connectors being left as they are now on photo and if I need to secure cables in the attic to joist.
I have basic multimeter to test voltage, resistance/continuity if that would help.

From the information you have given it is impossible to say if the alterations are compliant with current wiring regulations, (BS7671), or not...

As it sounds like you don't have have an insulation resistance tester..?
and you don't have an RCD tester..?
and you don't have anything to measure the earth loop impedance..?

There are certain tests that should be done before re-energising any circuit following alterations/additions.. (I/R, Polarity, R1+R2)
and further tests once the circuit is live.. (Earth Loop, RCD)..

And I guess you have not completed a Minor Works Certificate for the alteration, noting your test readings and the various supply characteristics..?

So it may or may not be compliant with current regs.. it really is anyone's guess..

Also wiring regulation 132.16 requires verification of the supply characteristic, earthing & bonding arrangements, BEFORE any alterations temporary or permanent to any installation.... Did you do this?

And of course any test readings taken would require a test meter that has a traceable recorded history of calibration and/or accuracy test records using a know good test card/box etc..

It may well be all good and dandy!! but without actually being there and doing as few tests, anyone on the internet is just guessing with probably an equal level of accuracy to a 50/50, phone-a-friend, or ask-the-audience verification!

Some of the above criteria are why work done by a professional competent electrician may appear a bit expensive to an average DIY bod, who considers themselves competent to do "Electrics"...

DIY electrical work is perfectly legal in the UK.. and it is not hard to join a few wires up to make something work..

BUT professional electrical work is about making sure something will "Fail-Safe"..
i.e. in the event of a fault keeping everyone alive, as electricity can kill a healthy adult in less than a second!!

Without your test readings it is impossible to say if it meets current standards, (wiring regulations).

 

[vecnar]

Change the lighting MCB for an rcbo

Thank you for information. Current mcb is No 17 and rcds on 1 and 2, I will test it tomorrow.

 

[NozSpark]

From your picture I'd say that it more than likely isn't RCD protected

But without any appropriate test gear, even if you did replace the MCB for a RCBO then how would you be able to confirm that it operates correctly... as Special Location said above

And being honest you, a multimeter isn't a suitable piece of equipment to test for dead; so you cannot even ensure your own safety while replacing it

 

[vecnar]

From the information you have given it is impossible to say if the alterations are compliant with current wiring regulations, (BS7671), or not...

As it sounds like you don't have have an insulation resistance tester..?
and you don't have an RCD tester..?
and you don't have anything to measure the earth loop impedance..?

There are certain tests that should be done before re-energising any circuit following alterations/additions.. (I/R, Polarity, R1+R2)
and further tests once the circuit is live.. (Earth Loop, RCD)..

And I guess you have not completed a Minor Works Certificate for the alteration, noting your test readings and the various supply characteristics..?

So it may or may not be compliant with current regs.. it really is anyone's guess..

Also wiring regulation 132.16 requires verification of the supply characteristic, earthing & bonding arrangements, BEFORE any alterations temporary or permanent to any installation.... Did you do this?

And of course any test readings taken would require a test meter that has a traceable recorded history of calibration and/or accuracy test records using a know good test card/box etc..

It may well be all good and dandy!! but without actually being there and doing as few tests, anyone on the internet is just guessing with probably an equal level of accuracy to a 50/50, phone-a-friend, or ask-the-audience verification!

Some of the above criteria are why work done by a professional competent electrician may appear a bit expensive to an average DIY bod, who considers themselves competent to do "Electrics"...

DIY electrical work is perfectly legal in the UK.. and it is not hard to join a few wires up to make something work..

BUT professional electrical work is about making sure something will "Fail-Safe"..
i.e. in the event of a fault keeping everyone alive, as electricity can kill a healthy adult in less than a second!!

Without your test readings it is impossible to say if it meets current standards, (wiring regulations).

Thank you for detailed explanation on why we should use electricians to do the work.
Unfortunately i had bad experiences with trades in the past, it was long time ago and I think I just started to verify everything or try and do it myself, at least the cosmetic part. By the way I didn't have problems with electricians but it kind of set it off.
I am keeping documentation of all the changes with photos and will need to invite electrician to inspect and certify to be on a safe side.
Would you know if I need to attach cables in the attic to the joist with cable clip?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Would you know if I need to attach cables in the attic to the joist with cable clip?

That is the least of your worries..
If it hasn't been tested to verify compliance with BS7671 then a clip or two in the attic is about as much use as a fart in a colander!

 

[vecnar]

From your picture I'd say that it more than likely isn't RCD protected

But without any appropriate test gear, even if you did replace the MCB for a RCBO then how would you be able to confirm that it operates correctly... as Special Location said above

And being honest you, a multimeter isn't a suitable piece of equipment to test for dead; so you cannot even ensure your own safety while replacing it

Thank you for your warnings, i think i try to be cautios and disable circuits and test for voltage before touching exposed wires. The house has mcb switch outside in near the meter that disables all input to mcb. I can connect but electrician will have to come and verify/test.

 

[vecnar]

That is the least of your worries..
If it hasn't been tested to verify compliance with BS7671 then a clip or two in the attic is about as much use as a fart in a colander!

For me it is important at the moment as it will take me hours to remove osb floor boards and all the items that I store in the attic if I miss because of missing clips. I assume all the tests will be done at connection points by electrician later on?

 

[NozSpark]

Thank you for your warnings, i think i try to be cautios and disable circuits and test for voltage before touching exposed wires. The house has mcb switch outside in near the meter that disables all input to mcb. I can connect but electrician will have to come and verify/test.

Electricians do not trust a switch to work correctly,,, we prove it.... it's the one test that will save your life when working on electric switchgear and circuits

 

[BorisJ]

Hi,
the light switch A was providing main positive voltage for all first-floor lights.

and couldn’t move junction box in the attic due to main positive cable length.

What are all these positives about. Your supply is AC and as such there is no positive (nor negative).

 

[vecnar]

What are all these positives about. Your supply is AC and as such there is no positive (nor negative).

I was trying to explain the setup and was referring to cable color (brown), main supply cable coming from mcb.