Lights in my house keep tripping - advice please

[Cath McK]

Hi everyone, the lights in my house keep tripping, fault finding has been done on two occasions and the problem wasn't found but pointed to it being in junction box, which was somewhere underneath loft floor. It was a bit of hassle finding where the unmarked JB was but finally found it. When it was opened there were 10 different sets of red/black wires but no earth. He said he'd never seen the likes of it and it was dangerous, then left saying he'd get back to me with a quote, but it would take two men on an 8 hour shift to fix it. My neighbour, who is elderly and retired electrician says its not dangerous, its the way they did junction boxes years ago, and although it's dated it's neither dangerous or illegal. Any advice please 

 

[Murdoch]

I would tend to agree with your neighbour. Lighting wiring from a single box used to be the way to do it and actually makes fault finding easier.

 I’d say get another spark to take a look

ps there is nothing illegal about what you describe

 

[Sharpend]

Concur ^, 

I think a better quality spark is required here 

 

[Geoff1946]

I hope someone has checked the condition of the flex in all the drops and lamp holders.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi everyone, the lights in my house keep tripping, fault finding has been done on two occasions and the problem wasn't found but pointed to it being in junction box, which was somewhere underneath loft floor. It was a bit of hassle finding where the unmarked JB was but finally found it. When it was opened there were 10 different sets of red/black wires but no earth. He said he'd never seen the likes of it and it was dangerous, then left saying he'd get back to me with a quote, but it would take two men on an 8 hour shift to fix it. My neighbour, who is elderly and retired electrician says its not dangerous, its the way they did junction boxes years ago, and although it's dated it's neither dangerous or illegal. Any advice please 

So did they say it was or wasn't dangerous?

and,  is it something they've never seen before, or just a different method of wiring?

Your post appears to have contradictions?

Did your "retired electrician" do any testing of the condition of the cables?

e.g. insulation resistance tests..?

If there is no earth on your lighting circuits...  

i.e. no physical earth conductors in the cables, (not just cut off and not connected)..

then the wiring dates from pre 1966..

In which case it probably needs a thorough check-over..

From what you describe it sounds to me like a property that has had no formal inspection and testing done on any of the wiring..

BS7671 wiring regulations recommend every 10 years or change of occupancy..

You don't actually say what keeps tripping..

an MCB / RCD / RCBO?

as the type of device will also point toward the type of problem..

:coffee  

 

[Cath McK]

I would tend to agree with your neighbour. Lighting wiring from a single box used to be the way to do it and actually makes fault finding easier.

 I’d say get another spark to take a look

ps there is nothing illegal about what you describe

Thanks Murdoch, yes I’m agreeing with that. I’ve arranged for another spark to have a look, when I emailed him with pic he said the same as you and that he’s seen  this a lot. They had me worried  

Concur ^, 

I think a better quality spark is required here 

I agree Sharpend 100% thanks

 

[Cath McK]

I hope someone has checked the condition of the flex in all the drops and lamp holders.

I’ve had it all checked 3 times with fault finding explorations - all light fittings removed and checked, bulbs out then replaced one by one, all light switches opened and wiring checked, RCD board wiring and screws checked/tightened and ok flexes in all drops good condition that’s why finally get floor ripped up and search for junction box

 

[Fleeting]

What actually trips. Rcd, rcbo or mcb.

 

[Murdoch]

Is there any pattern to the tripping? I would recommend you keep a diary of when it trips

Time of day? use of certain light(s), people walking upstairs?

What is actually tripping? MCB? RCD?

 

[Sharpend]

Cath, has any of these electricians mentioned ‘insulation resistance test’ or ‘Megger cables’ to you either in a report or verbally in conversation?

Did you actually see any test Instruments come out during all these electricians visits? 

 

[Cath McK]

So did they say it was or wasn't dangerous?

and,  is it something they've never seen before, or just a different method of wiring?

Your post appears to have contradictions?

Did your "retired electrician" do any testing of the condition of the cables?

e.g. insulation resistance tests..?

If there is no earth on your lighting circuits...  

i.e. no physical earth conductors in the cables, (not just cut off and not connected)..

then the wiring dates from pre 1966..

In which case it probably needs a thorough check-over..

From what you describe it sounds to me like a property that has had no formal inspection and testing done on any of the wiring..

BS7671 wiring regulations recommend every 10 years or change of occupancy..

You don't actually say what keeps tripping..

an MCB / RCD / RCBO?

as the type of device will also point toward the type of problem..

:coffee  

Yes they said it would have to be completely rewired and looked suitably horrified. No contradictions - just confusion as to why if it was so dangerous they left it saying they had no time to do it (almost 2 hours late). They didn’t check to see what was causing fault just put it down to this without testing.

My ‘retired electrician’ isn’t able now to do the work but looked at it and had seen these jb’s and wiring many times before and said it’s older but fine 

the earth wires have been cut off and partial rewire was apparently done before I bought the flat (light wires and switches/RCD box wiring all checked and fine)

it’s an RCD box with new circuit breaker and the light switch trips on this 

What actually trips. Rcd, rcbo or mcb.

Switch for lights in RCB

 

[Fleeting]

Wouldn't mind seeing a pic of this junction box. Being concealed for so long and assuming it hasn't suffered ingress of water I suspect the cause of the tripping is not at the junction box, systematic testing of the circuit will find the issue.

 

[Cath McK]

What actually trips. Rcd, rcbo or mcb.

RCD

 

[Murdoch]

RCD

What makes you think the lighting circuit is to blame?

 

[Cath McK]

Wouldn't mind seeing a pic of this junction box. Being concealed for so long and assuming it hasn't suffered ingress of water I suspect the cause of the tripping is not at the junction box, systematic testing of the circuit will find the issue.

I was trying to upload photos but couldn’t manage - do u know how to do it on here and I’ll upload them?

What makes you think the lighting circuit is to blame?

It’s the circuit switch for lights in RCD that keeps blowing, and that’s what sparks have said

 

[Cath McK]

I was trying to upload photos but couldn’t manage - do u know how to do it on here and I’ll upload them?

It’s the circuit switch for lights in RCD that keeps blowing, and that’s what sparks have said

 

[Murdoch]

Doesn't on the face of it, appear to have too many CPC's (earths) in there

I do think you need a better spark AND insist on a description of work / tests under taken to be with their invoice ..........

 

[Fleeting]

I can see evidence of at least one bare earth (cpc) which was wrapped below the box lid screw and possibly others cut off. I would be very wary touching that if it isn't isolated completely. I think you need a thorough test of all your circuits to get a view on the overall condition because that isn't really looking very promising. 

 

[Sharpend]

Doesn't on the face of it, appear to have too many CPC's (earths) in there

I do think you need a better spark AND insist on a description of work / tests under taken to be with their invoice ..........

As with all good pics they have been omitted for clarity!! 

 

[Murdoch]

OP - how old is your property?