Mantel Units

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Nothing special, Upgraded a Mantel unit today with a Wylex skeleton frame and Rcbo's so though i would put some pics here for reference.

Before

After

First time for ages i have managed to get the proper gear for this job in time. Sure beats hacking about a consumer unit to get in. This Mantel unit was thinner and longer than others i have worked on so i had to get an old 16th edition skeleton frame & remove the Rcd.

The loose cables seen are the local authorities sparks rewiring the mains and this flat was half way through the job

 

[kerching]

In 35+ years I have never seen one of those before!.........quite glad really. looks a ****** to work on/in....... :coat

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

In 35+ years I have never seen one of those before!.........quite glad really. looks a ****** to work on/in....... :coat

They are found in 99% of authority housing in London. First 'proper' one i have done for ages and it was worth the few extra pounds to buy the correct gear. I drilled out the spot welds in the metal shelf below the breakers to remove it . Everything then unbolts and the larger new unit goes back in on the same studs. As its a 16mm feed i didn't bother renewing the tails. On this unit, like most the wireway covers were missing exposing the single core cables entering the conduits at the bottom. I cut a piece of 6x2 trunking to cover this (seen in the after pic) It was a very easy job.

 

[batty]

They are quite rare around here i have only ever done one and also fitted a Wylex Skeleton jobbie with RCBO's

 

[Barx]

Nice job mate. Fitted quite a few of these, think they were in some flat in sheffield. A firm subbed us in to do some rewires only for me to find out we were the guinea pigs for the boards. They had already done a few flats but nobody could fit the boards....

Bash, bash, bang, bang, drill, drill... Done! on to the next one.

4 people were watching me do the board so they knew how to do them lol.

 

[batty]

You should have charged them for the training.

 

[Laurapora86]

Hi, as you chaps have been discussing mantel units I'm hoping you may be able to advise me.... 

I'm a new homeowner, ex-local authority flat. All my wiring is in surface mounted trucking and I have a skeleton board in a mantel unit unhelpfully placed in the spot I wish to move my bathroom. (I hear you all scoff loudly). Yes I'm aware it's ambitious but the move of said electricity meter/fuseboard/bathroom pathes the way for an open plan living space and subsequently a two bed to rent out rather than a one bed! I'm worried that the other flats in the block would have their rising cables running through the mantel? Is this always true of council blocks? Basically I want the whole place rewired so as to rid myself of unsightly cables and have the electricity meter either outside or in my kitchen with the fuse board. Any help/advice on this would be hugely apreciated. 

Laura (ambitious d.i.yer)

Photo to follow...

Hi, as you chaps have been discussing mantel units I'm hoping you may be able to advise me.... 

I'm a new homeowner, ex-local authority flat. All my wiring is in surface mounted trucking and I have a skeleton board in a mantel unit unhelpfully placed in the spot I wish to move my bathroom. (I hear you all scoff loudly). Yes I'm aware it's ambitious but the move of said electricity meter/fuseboard/bathroom pathes the way for an open plan living space and subsequently a two bed to rent out rather than a one bed! I'm worried that the other flats in the block would have their rising cables running through the mantel? Is this always true of council blocks? Basically I want the whole place rewired so as to rid myself of unsightly cables and have the electricity meter either outside or in my kitchen with the fuse board. Any help/advice on this would be hugely apreciated. 

Laura (ambitious d.i.yer)

Photo to follow...

IMG_1163.pdf

IMG_1164.pdf

IMG_1165.pdf

 

[binky]

moving meter and incoming supply can only be done by DNO. Judging by big bit of MICC entering from side, you only have 1 supply running through your mantel enclosure. Please don't get too keen and do the electrics yourself. You may find  a busy electrician to guide you through the donkey work to save money, but arrange this prior to commecning any wiring - no pro spark likes signing off amateur work for very legally binding reasons

 

[Blue Duck]

ooh kay.... I work in a lot of ex council / council properties, are you in a block? are your walls concrete? the conduits should still be there for the lighting but the number of sockets (in conduit) will be piss poor usually 2 per room.

Moving the supply may be easy like binky says, could also be a complete nightmare!

Open plan living in a council property.... you will have to be careful of load baring walls (all of them if its concrete).

Hopefully an admin will be along soon to allow you to upload pics then we should be able to give clearer answers.

Also If its a housing association building then you may have to find the BNO? (building network operator).

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Hi  Laura,  Well i decided to answer in this thread.  I dont think you realise what a big job moving the Mantel unit will be. Firstly it would be very unusual for other flats to be wired through your unit, but the cables may pass by the side. Every cable in your property goes to this position so every single one will need altering to go to the new position.

Whats more  costly is the incoming supply cable. This is the supply company property. There will be a main distribution box somewhere (normally in a cupboard on the ground floor) where the electric from the street comes in. This box then splits the electric to each flat.  I doubt the supply company will allow you to  extend the existing so unless it can be relocated you will have to have a new cable from the distribution  box to your flat which will cost  a fair amount plus any supply company fees for reconnecting it. You will also need authority from the freeholders to run your replacement cable through any area not yours with any possible making good, redecoration costs also. Are you a top floor flat ? Most ex authority flats that have been privately purchased to not include the loft space, so you cant run/place anything there.

Your own flats  cables cant normally   simply be left as in and joined, but have to be removed and altered. If you do relocate all this , unless you are specified by the freeholders you dont have to use a Mantel unit. Any consumer unit meeting Amnd 3 could be used with the new supply equipment (meter and head) being surface mounted adjacent.

Lastly, cant remember the exact wording of the regs (someone else may help) but i don't believe you can have wiring running through a bathroom (included in the walls) of circuits not connected with that room .

 

[Blue Duck]

Hi Laura, Well i decided to answer in this thread. I dont think you realise what a big job moving the Mantel unit will be. Firstly it would be very unusual for other flats to be wired through your unit, but the cables may pass by the side. Every cable in your property goes to this position so every single one will need altering to go to the new position.

Whats more costly is the incoming supply cable. This is the supply company property. There will be a main distribution box somewhere (normally in a cupboard on the ground floor) where the electric from the street comes in. This box then splits the electric to each flat. I doubt the supply company will allow you to extend the existing so unless it can be relocated you will have to have a new cable from the distribution box to your flat which will cost a fair amount plus any supply company fees for reconnecting it. You will also need authority from the freeholders to run your replacement cable through any area not yours with any possible making good, redecoration costs also. Are you a top floor flat ? Most ex authority flats that have been privately purchased to not include the loft space, so you cant run/place anything there.

Your own flats cables cant normally simply be left as in and joined, but have to be removed and altered. If you do relocate all this , unless you are specified by the freeholders you dont have to use a Mantel unit. Any consumer unit meeting Amnd 3 could be used with the new supply equipment (meter and head) being surface mounted adjacent.

Lastly, cant remember the exact wording of the regs (someone else may help) but i don't believe you can have wiring running through a bathroom (included in the walls) of circuits not connected with that room .

Good post!

Especially difficult with pyro buried in concrete or singles in conduit buried deep in the fabric of the building. ; But the OP says its all (probably not all) surface in trunking which means the mantel may not be compliant with BS7671:2015?



Also long mantels usually have an off peak supply

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Heres my effort.

 

[Laurapora86]

First of all, Thankyou so much for all your replies!

Binky, I won't do any of the work, promise! I have no experience of practical electrician-ing, I've just been reading a lot to try and work out the possibilities within my own flat. The DNO did visit my flat but they basically said their responsibility stops at the distribution box and that anything beyond this was up to a private electrician. When you say, I may only have one supply running through the mantel, do you mean mine? Or would that be a neighbours? Sorry I know it's a lot to be able to tell from a few small photos!

Blue duck, yep I'm on the 2nd floor of 5, in a 1915 brick built council block. The lighting does still go through conduits and the electrics to the bedroom and lounge. At some point (maybe in the 70s) the council have updated the electrics in the kitchen and hallway and haven't bothered with the conduits.

Slipshod and slapdash, Can a new cable from the distribution box follow the same channel as the old one only be diverted once it enters my flat? I was hoping it could be diverted through the walls to surface somewhere else but essentially come from the same place? Also I don't know if this is breaking the rules of the chat room but how much would you estimate a 'fair amount' for the new cable to be fitted?

As you can tell, I KNOW NOTHING, but if anyone could reassure me that it's possible and a vague idea of price for doing it, I can start looking for someone who'd be up for it.

Thanks again for all your help.

I'm going to try to upload a little hand draw floor plan so it's easier to visualise.

 

[Blue Duck]

Do you have concrete floors / ceilings?

probaby 1950s rewired in the 80's?

 

[Laurapora86]

I have concrete floors, but at least some of the walls are brick (my neighbour renovated and the bathroom and toilet walls are 9cm wide brick). not sure about the boundry wall between mine and my neighbour but the only supporting wall is tghe one that runs parallel to the front and back of the building (i hope). Gona try n upload that floorplan again now!

IMG_1167.pdf

 

[steptoe]

I'd hazard a guess that all your brick walls are supporting walls for the floor above, maybe, possibly

without a site visit its an impossibility to even guess at the work involved tbh

 

[Laurapora86]

I'm going to try and get the architectual plans for the building from the national records on monday in the hope they'll clarify if any are supporting. I'm in elephant and castle. I read that if they're only 9cm they wouldnt be stable enough to be loadbearing? ...and that era (1915) they used brick as partition material. Im probably being overly optimistic though..

 

[NozSpark]

To me it sounds like you'll need a structural engineer to asess the removal of this wall..

Which floor are you on? And how many floors?

 

[steptoe]

floor 2 of 5 Noz

 

[NozSpark]

floor 2 of 5 Noz

Definitely needs a structural engineer IMHO then