MCS Scheme Redevelopment...

[Joules]

I take the feed from Installer Magazine and thought the good folks here might like to contribute to the MCS Scheme Redevelopment Consultation especially if you have issues in the way the current scheme operates. The deadline for responding to the consultation is 9.00am on 17 July 2023.

 

[binky]

I take the feed from Installer Magazine and thought the good folks here might like to contribute to the MCS Scheme Redevelopment Consultation especially if you have issues in the way the current scheme operates. The deadline for responding to the consultation is 9.00am on 17 July 2023.

My biggest issue is that this self serving quango exists at all

 

[UNG]

My biggest issue is that this self serving quango exists at all

I have to agree never understood the grip it appears to have on the industry and most of the rules it has set seem a bit to onerous

 

[binky]

I have to agree never understood the grip it appears to have on the industry and most of the rules it has set seem a bit to onerous

The government of the time tried to shut out rogue traders, but ultimately shut out small business/ micro businesses , leaving the money backed charlatans. Shame, considering the original intention is that PV would become ' normal ' work for electricians.

I can understand what was trying to be achieved, installing power generation connected to the grid needs ' standards'. However, MCS is a private company, and frankly has turned into a leach. The onerous paperwork trail they insist on does nothing but shut out smaller companies

 

[stuboy]

100% agree on that one Binky, unless there are enough of you to have a staffed office or your 100% dedicated to solar jumping through all the ridiculess hoops is a monumental waste of time, and having seen a few so called "certified" installs you know that its a self serving Quango that does little or nothing to uphold decent standards and stop rogue trading!
I'll go and take a Valium now...lol ;-)
Stu

 

[UNG]

The problem is while all these industry schemes have good intentions they all suffer from greed and it has become more about the balance sheet than the promotion of installations carried out by properly qualified operatives to a standard of quality that can be properly audited as an acceptable standard.
Gassafe is always lauded as being one of the better schemes but from my own experience and conversations with other trades they are no better than any of the other schemes
I think a review of all these industry trade schemes is long overdue as I don't think they are actually achieving what they claim and are now becoming more of a hinderance to protecting the customer with the lower qualification and experience levels they deem as an acceptable standard to get the badge
The MCS seem to want to micromange all aspects of an installation even down to the choice of materials and equipment that can be used I'm sure this must create and come under restrictive practice and potentially exclude some manufacturers from developing new products that may meet the recognised standards but might not get MCS approval and and therefore not useable

 

[Joules]

Guys, you really need to read the proposals. Apparently, one cannot have a electrician install solar and then gain retrospective approval by an MCS under existing rules. They are proposing to change this to allow retrospective approval by MCS. Another change is a recognition that the industry requires more MCS approved installers. The gotcha is that one needs to find £5000 as a deposit which is returned on becoming MCS certified. What happens to a lost deposit is discussed. They are doing this to discourage abuse of the certification process by bad actors. Have your say...

 

[binky]

Guys, you really need to read the proposals. Apparently, one cannot have a electrician install solar and then gain retrospective approval by an MCS under existing rules. They are proposing to change this to allow retrospective approval by MCS. Another change is a recognition that the industry requires more MCS approved installers. The gotcha is that one needs to find £5000 as a deposit which is returned on becoming MCS certified. What happens to a lost deposit is discussed. They are doing this to discourage abuse of the certification process by bad actors. Have your say...

I have read the proposals a while ago. Signing off other people's work was never part of the scheme, although some did.

My biggest complaint was the having to run the ISO9000 type paperwork. They insisted on hours inspecting the paperwork, but only ever had a quick glance at actual Jobs. Running the paperwork was expensive and ideally required staff, although you can buy software for that. What they never stopped was outsourcing to contractors, who could all be basically untrained.

 

[Joules]

The question is, can a sole trader electrician afford to enter the scheme given the high up front cost? Two things that MCS do: first is obtain DNO approval for the install and secondly provide evidence to solar panel insurance underwriters that the OEM's panels were installed correctly. This can provide in some cases a 40 year guarantee. How will the changes affect this?

Consumers will have no problem in buying a new 20k-30k car with a three year warranty that can be extended to five. Yet for a far lower panels cost underwriters require MCS as the only competent means of ensuring good installation practice; no mention of this at all. The changes to MCS are to be more technically focused which begs the question will BS7671 be the basis of this focus.

They reckon that come July it will take 6 months to implement before the old scheme is withdrawn.

 

[binky]

Yet for a far lower panels cost underwriters require MCS as the only competent means of ensuring good installation practice; no mention of this at all.

That's the problem, MCS registration is no guarantee of correct installation. Quite a few of companies outsource the work, run for around 2 years , and phoenix under a different name. One of my local competitors is on the 4th name is less than 10 years.

 

[UNG]

The one thing that is certain I doubt the MCS will release any of the very tight grip it appears they have on the industry and I think in the long term it will be very detrimental to the renewables sector

 

[Joules]

The one thing that is certain I doubt the MCS will release any of the very tight grip it appears they have on the industry and I think in the long term it will be very detrimental to the renewables sector

The backdrop to all of this is that legislation is in place for net zero by 2050. So MCS needs to change to accommodate this. They admit the market has changed. Fifteen years ago government introduced FIT but installs were out of reach for most people. Venture capitalists stepped in to provide free installs which gave rise to a number of leasing companies. These companies embraced a long term return on their outlay so it was in their interests to ensure that installs were of high quality. Government Created MCS to ensure that FIT payments went hand-in-hand with high quality installs but they also added an impenetrable layer of bureaucracy to slow take up down. This suited DNO as large scale take up of FIT would have potentially damaged their distribution network.

There are a lots of self-employed electricians who install lots of solar under MCS supervision, they have the know how but the establishment does not recognize their ability to install in their own right even though they have NICEIC accreditation. Something is very wrong and as you infer it will prove detrimental in meeting net zero targets.

 

[binky]

well, they tried to ensure high quality installation. Most of the bad installations I've seen are 'rent a roof', along with the early solar farms. Lots of these have been flogged off to other investment companies before they coukd start causing problems for those that built them. Major problem on solar farms being DC cables buried direct in the ground, it lasts about 5 years before failing due to damp.

 

[Kot]

Two things that MCS do: first is obtain DNO approval for the install

Are you sure? What a bottle neck that would be. My installer did all the DNO application and received approval direct from the DNO.

 

[binky]

Are you sure? What a bottle neck that would be. My installer did all the DNO application and received approval direct from the DNO.

MCS has nothing to do with DNO.

 

[Joules]

MCS has nothing to do with DNO.

Correct! But they make the application to the DNO for the install and process the paperwork. It could be a similar arrangement that of Build Regulations Part P where the NICIEC self certifies; the customer does not need to contact the local authority its all done for you.

 

[Joules]

Are you sure? What a bottle neck that would be. My installer did all the DNO application and received approval direct from the DNO.

Yes, however your installer may not qualify under panel warranty as they usually ask for an MCS install.

 

[binky]

Correct! But they make the application to the DNO for the install and process the paperwork. It could be a similar arrangement that of Build Regulations Part P where the NICIEC self certifies; the customer does not need to contact the local authority its all done for you.

Err no, anyone can apply to the DNO. MCS accredited installers tend to do this on behalf of their customers as part of the service, if that's what you mean. DNOs tend to prefer paperwork from regular installers as it's easier for them, plus I think if you are making G99 or G100 application with export limitation, they are happier it comes from a regular installer. Nothing like building trust with the DNO, I even got asked once for an expert opinion on how solar systems work in a dispute with a member of the public.

 

[ish]

As a potential purchaser of a solar system, the MCS has made the solar pathway (who want to sell to the grid) a closed group. I am getting quotes with such huge markups on components it is making it not worth spending the money. The MCS engineers know they have the market to themselves so use it as a licence to print money. It is a shame as solar could be available to so many people below the upper echelon of earners.

MCS response when you ask them any questions is they just don't care.

 

[binky]

As a potential purchaser of a solar system, the MCS has made the solar pathway (who want to sell to the grid) a closed group. I am getting quotes with such huge markups on components it is making it not worth spending the money. The MCS engineers know they have the market to themselves so use it as a licence to print money. It is a shame as solar could be available to so many people below the upper echelon of earners.

MCS response when you ask them any questions is they just don't care.

Hence all the DIY installation questions on here. Ish, short for Isherwood by any chance?