Metal clad distribution boards and TT

[unphased]

I cannot believe there are sparks who think that a metal enclosure fuseboard is unsuitable for a TT system. Both metalclad and insulated are manufactured for all situations. Good grief.

 

[Sidewinder]

Of course it is. You are being rather pedantic. Tails 6181Y are double insulated. Same as any twin and earth. Same as any flex. The outer sheath is protection against damage to the primary insulation is all. Or maybe you could explain your statement.

Yes it is mechanical protection for the insulation.

Please refer to BS6004, where you will see that the outer sheath is classed as such, and is not subjected to electrical tests, nor classed as insulation.

I've just double checked the standard.

I'm not being pedantic, well I am, but I am stating a fact from a recognised source, i.e. a British Standard.

I tend not to deal in rumours, or hearsay.

I will also state if things are my opinion.

I do have a lot of opinions, and they are very strong, however, being a Professional Engineer I am paid for my opinions.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was made at 18:06 ----------

I cannot believe there are sparks who think that a metal enclosure fuseboard is unsuitable for a TT system. Both metalclad and insulated are manufactured for all situations. Good grief.

I'll dig out the regulation number from BS7671, later once I have finished my invoicing, unless I am beaten to it.

Then we can debate the meaning of the reg, rather than each others opinions.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was made at 18:08 ----------

Just to add a bit to the advantages of a metalclad enclosure; I would say that in many cases the supply to the CU is via armoured cable, I cannot see that a plastic enclosure will give the same connection quality as a metal one... :C

It will not, termination of SWA into polymer enclosures is something that most electricians I follow seem to have big issues with.

It is possible and can be done correctly, but it takes some thought.

 

[Jono Pashley]

Of course it is. You are being rather pedantic. Tails 6181Y are double insulated. Same as any twin and earth. Same as any flex. The outer sheath is protection against damage to the primary insulation is all. Or maybe you could explain your statement.

Insulated and Sheathed not Double Insualted(there is a difference).

 

[Sidewinder]

unphased,

I also suggest your refer to BS7671 Reg. No. 531.4.1, then we can first debate the meaning of this, then, we can move on to BS7671 Section 412, if you wish.

However, we need to take things a step at a time.

It may also pay to move this to a new thread if you want to debate the double insulated VS insulated & sheathed, along with the metal enclosures at the origin of a TT install.

Mods?

 

[Manator]

The above posts have been moved to a new thread to continue a related debate.

 

[unphased]

Well I am sure double insulated, and insulated and sheathed, are effectively one and the same. PVC/PVC. PVC is an insulator, not a conductor. If a cable is constructed of copper conductor insulated with PVC then sheathed with PVC this has to be double insulated. If you are trying to introduce a mechanial element to the outer sheath then that is different, I agree, but reading Section 412 doesn't change my mind I am afraid.

As far as 531.4.1 is concerned this does not specifically explain your statement that metalclad fuseboards cannot be used in a TT system. I find this laughable. RCD protection is always part and parcel of the TT installation. You apply all the measures required and metalclad fuseboards are perfectly fine.531.4.1 specifically reqires an RCD to be used at the origin if it is just a single RCD. This reg does not preclude metalclad. There is no mention of this in that reg.

 

[Sidewinder]

unphased,

Which bit of one thing at a time don't you get?

What do you want to discuss first, ONE thing, then we will move forward, if you want to do the lot at once then I'm not going to bother any more with your rants here.

 

[unphased]

unphased,Which bit of one thing at a time don't you get?

What do you want to discuss first, ONE thing, then we will move forward, if you want to do the lot at once then I'm not going to bother any more with your rants here.

Typical forum response. I object to being spoken to like I am a kid and that you are trying to teach me. Don't reply if you don't want to. Goodness sake it is impossible to be nice to people on forums without some bighead coming it. Now if you want to debate my staement then do so. I can handle more than one thing ata time. I don';t care how long it takes.

Thank you.

Canoe boy why the slap?

 

[Sidewinder]

\Well you go on then and debate or discuss what you like I'm not going to go over more than one thing at a time.

So unless you are prepared to do this then you won't get another civil response from me.

I'm not speaking to you like a kid, I am giving you the respect you gave me, none.

I offered to debate the points with you one at a time, you refused.

Why should I bother to debate with you?

You obviously want to try to make a fool of me.

I am not prepared to allow things to become confused for other forum members so IF you want to discuss or debate this with me then it will be one point at a time, not to make a fool out of you , belittle you, or treat you like a kid or teach you, but because of the founding principles of the forum.

BTW if I wanted to teach you, then you would need to be in one of my classes, we charge for these.

 

[unphased]

btw I don't have access to BS6004. Can you give me an example of double insulated as provide din that BS please.

 

[Manator]

Unphased, no one is trying to treat you as a kid or try to belittle you, and it is certainly not a case of all at once. If you decide to take reasonable debate what sidewinder is trying to do is educate not only yourself but others including me. I for one would like to know the outcome of this debate even though I thi9nk I already know it. Having said that does that make me a big head, or just a humble electrician with over 30 years of experience and yet still willing to learn?

Stay calm and argue your point, that's what forums are about and this forum is nothing like other pretend ones, where comments are laughed at and posters ridiculed.

 

[unphased]

You are a ***********, sidewinder, please entertain your self importance with somebody else. I no longer wish to speak to you. I can never understand how some people are so egotistical and so full of themselves that they dare to treat a fellow forum member in this way. I hope the forum admin will agree with me that you have over stepped the mark on this occasion. I have only just started using the forum. X(

 

[jameseye12]

You are a **********, sidewinder, please entertain your self importance with somebody else. I no longer wish to speak to you. I can never understand how some people are so egotistical and so full of themselves that they dare to treat a fellow forum member in this way. I hope the forum admin will agree with me that you have over stepped the mark on this occasion. I have only just started using the forum. X(

Think about this one - he is only trying to help you, you're just upset because hes right, maybe because he knows what he is talking about. Nuff Said

 

[Manator]

You are a **********, sidewinder, please entertain your self importance with somebody else. I no longer wish to speak to you. I can never understand how some people are so egotistical and so full of themselves that they dare to treat a fellow forum member in this way. I hpe the forum admin will agree with me that you have over stepped the mark on this occasion. I have only just bstarted using the forum. X(

It is not the admin that you should need to fear here, as for overstepping the mark there has only been one member, yourself, and he is in grave danger of being banished to the dark side. Personal insults are the defences used by those who can not effectively debate a point, simply because they lack the knowledge of their convictions.

I personal apology in your next post and I may, just may decide not to ban you.

 

[unphased]

Unphased, no one is trying to treat you as a kid or try to belittle you, and it is certainly not a case of all at once. If you decide to take reasonable debate what sidewinder is trying to do is educate not only yourself but others including me. I for one would like to know the outcome of this debate even though I thi9nk I already know it. Having said that does that make me a big head, or just a humble electrician with over 30 years of experience and yet still willing to learn?Stay calm and argue your point, that's what forums are about and this forum is nothing like other pretend ones, where comments are laughed at and posters ridiculed.

Manotor I apologise to you if yoy thought my comments were aimed at you. They weren't. I am angry at being spoken to like that from sidewinder. I don't know who he is. Who does HE think he is. I will not be treated like a school kid. There are obvious signs of self-importance from him and I stand by my comments.

Sorry. No offence to you. He is to blame.

 

[Sidewinder]

unphased,

I have just reported your post to the forum Admin team, suggesting that I am in trouble with them, not you.

 

[unphased]

Manotor surely you can see how his response has wound me up. I did not deserve this. Please don't ban me I have only just started to use the forum.

 

[a3]

You are a ***********, sidewinder, please entertain your self importance with somebody else. I no longer wish to speak to you. I can never understand how some people are so egotistical and so full of themselves that they dare to treat a fellow forum member in this way. I hope the forum admin will agree with me that you have over stepped the mark on this occasion. I have only just started using the forum. X(

Mr Unphased

Please retract from name calling, i have edited your post. If you no longer wish to see sidewinders posts then please click the ignore button. Mr sidewinder has in no way be-littled you or started name calling.

Please take this as a nice warning as you are a new member.

Thankyou

 

[unphased]

unphased,I have just reported your post to the forum Admin team, suggesting that I am in trouble with them, not you.

So I see

 

[jameseye12]

Back to the OP, if you wish to use a metal clad distribution board, then it needs a front end rcd to protect the tails before they enter the metal enclosure. Metal DBs are not forbidden on TT installs