missing a strap in 2way lighting

[bazza_uk74]

Hi all

I`m new here - first post.

I have got myself my first house, and I have paid a sparky to re-wire it, but he missed a cable out on the 2way upstairs/downstairs lighting ( as well as the front lounge & back dinning rooms. )

the thing is, when we realised that more cables were needed - it was too late, all walls were plastered and papered, ready for paint. - Could not go back as a tight schedule to move in on time.

I have had a good luck at the lounge & dinner, where I want a light in each room, with the ability to either light on from either end, but theres nothing I can do about that - so its one light - one switch, at each end.

The one I`m asking about is the upstairs/downstairs circuit.

for a 2way light system, I know its 2 switches, one light , and between the switches, a common, and 2 strappers ( one is the live feed in )

I only have a 3core+earth running between the switches though.,

I have figured out that I can get it working ( and I have tested it works ) by using the earth wire from the 3-core as a strapper.

I know that box switch loctions are earthed, and as this cable does nothing but act as strappers, the earth is not needed in `this` cable.

I have covered the earth wire with a PVC sheaf and coated that in red insulating tape.

So, question is, is this `safe` to continue using? would it pass tests?

is there any other way of doing the usual up/down stairs lighting with only 3 wires?

thanks

Simon

 

[Andy™]

I have figured out that I can get it working ( and I have tested it works ) by using the earth wire from the 3-core as a strapper.

do NOT, i repeat, DO NOT ever use the earth as a live

 

[Andy™]

and from what you say, there is a 3 core between upstairs switch and downstairs switch? 99% of the time, this is how its wired and does work (and even keeps the earth as an earth.

What other cables are in the switches?

 

[bazza_uk74]

ok, andy, I guessed that too

but this earth is well insulated

but yeah I do know that I should not - just I really need the lighting to work, and I cant think of another way

is there one?

or do I have to give up?

 

[Andy™]

ok, andy, I guessed that toobut this earth is well insulated

but yeah I do know that I should not - just I really need the lighting to work, and I cant think of another way

is there one?

or do I have to give up?

no - its not insulated. the outer sheath is not classed as insulation. only the inner cores are insulated - the sheath is just what its name implies. and what you have done could well kill someone in the future. if you need light to work, do it properly

if you see my other post and let us know what cables are actually there, (pic would be useful) then we may be able to help you better

 

[bazza_uk74]

ok I`ll try a detailed description :

Downstairs :

2core+e, live feed in

2core+3, live feed out

2core+e, from switch to light

3core+e to upstairs switch

Upstairs: ( more complex as there is a third switch here for the bathroom)

2core+e, live feed in

2core+e, live feed out

2core+e, to bathroom light

2core+e, to upstairs light

3core+e to other switch

this help?

thanks

 

[batty]

Hello Bazza welcome to the forum. As handy Andy says you should never use a circuit protective conductor as a live wire it is against wiring regulations and is dangerous as far as I am concearned. So don't do it.

Batty

 

[Andy™]

kinda. i can easily see a way in which you can safely get this working. give me 10 mins for a drawing

 

[bazza_uk74]

Batty, thanks, I know that should not use it

but as I said, I really could do with this lighting to work as I require, and its far too late to add more cables

so I dont know what to do

 

[bazza_uk74]

kinda. i can easily see a way in which you can safely get this working. give me 10 mins for a drawing

thanks andy

as there is a feed upstairs from thats upper ring, and a feed downstairs from the lower ring, could that save the need for carrying the live feed between the switches?

thanks again, both

 

[batty]

Generally you have a 2 gang switch down and a one gang up although you have a 2 gang to switch bathroom light. With the cables you have got you should be able to change the upstairs switch for a 2 gang so you can switch upstairs light from up and down and downstairs only from down.

Batty

 

[Andy™]

providing its wired the way i think it is, this should work. this is how your sparky should have connected it

upstairs light must not be electrically connected to upstairs circuit (i.e borrowed neutral)

i have ignored other lights since there not needed for drawing

the word 'connector' should be on left side, where blue and black joins

 

[batty]

thanks andyas there is a feed upstairs from thats upper ring, and a feed downstairs from the lower ring, could that save the need for carrying the live feed between the switches?

thanks again, both

don't start talking about ring mains you will confuse us.

Batty

 

[bazza_uk74]

yeah, thats what the sparky did

he did the first fix well before xmas, then he went on holiday, had a birthday,

it was about 6 weeks laterwhen he came back to do the next fix, and he forgot what the plan was,

so he left it as u said

but I want a 3gang up ( bathroom, uplight, downlight ) and 2 gang down ( up/downlight)

if possible

tho I know that I may well have to change it all - pity cos it is working like that lol

 

[bazza_uk74]

well I mean `ring main` as there is a loop from the CU for the upstairs lighting and one for down, thats what I mean

 

[Andy™]

but I want a 3gang up ( bathroom, uplight, downlight ) and 2 gang down ( up/downlight)

not possible with what you have. you can have up switched from both positions, down only from down switch

 

[bazza_uk74]

thanks for the pic Andy

would a pic of what I have help too ?

as in total I have 3 lights & 5 switches lol ( one light & swicth is the bathroom tho )

 

[Andy™]

thanks for the pic Andywould a pic of what I have help too ?

yes, and preferably labelled as to what cable goes to where

 

[Robojin]

Hello Bazza welcome to the forum. As handy Andy says you should never use a circuit protective conductor as a live wire it is against wiring regulations and is dangerous as far as I am concearned. So don't do it.Batty

Bazza, I can only concur what the others have said, please under no circumstances use the cpc (earth) for anything other than earth, to be blunt you could end up killing someone , and I'm sure you will agree that's not worth the price if you need to do some redecoration

Andy and Batty are top guys and their advice is free (mostly ) so irrespective of some inconvenience take their advice

 

[Andy™]

Andy and Batty are top guys and their advice is free (mostly )

could always make a donation to the site to help keep it free