missing a strap in 2way lighting

[batty]

Finally he has gone to bed.

 

[kme]

No. He`s still here..................

 

[kme]

Or did you mean Andy??

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

thats now a fairly common way of wiring lights - loop in at switch instead of light fitting. means you only got 1 cable at light for when joe public wants to change it

Just makes it hard when joe public want to put on a new decorative switch...

loads and loads of wires to get confused over!!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi allI`m new here - first post.

Hello welcome to the forum...

just looking through this thread and there are a lot of serious issues that do concern me.

I will try to be as clear as I can..

and hope you take them in the context they are ment...

here goes..

I have got myself my first house' date=' and I have paid a sparky to re-wire it, but he missed a cable out on the 2way upstairs/downstairs lighting ( as well as the front lounge & back dinning rooms. )

[/quote']

erm....

Paid a sparky to re-wire it.. thus assume;

1/ You have an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work done.

2/ It has been notified to the LABC and you have a compliance certificate (received or due)

Question: Did the spark self certify his work and is he a member of one of the approved part P schemes?

If yes to the above then

IMHO you tell the sparky to come back and put right his c0ck-up at his own expense then???

Or...

follow the complaints procedure through his scheme provider to put it right?

Or...

did you not have a written quote agreement stipulating the work to be done??

for ANY major works.. a reputable spark should provide some written agreement

of schedule of work to do & costs?

Or are we talking a back-hander no certificates do it quick and cheep job?

the thing is' date=' when we realised that more cables were needed - it was too late, all walls were plastered and papered, ready for paint. - Could not go back as a tight schedule to move in on time.

[/quote']

pull out the two supply loop in and out cables..

that will leave enough room for a 3core & earth (smaller than 2 x T&E)!

I have covered the earth wire with a PVC sheaf and coated that in red insulating tape.

No you haven't!

you may have covered the exposed ends of the wire

but NOT the whole uninsulated length down the run of the cable.

it is predominantly an UNINSULATED conductor.

as one of the other guys said

the bare wire is sheathed against mechanical damaged..

BUT NOT insulted to carry 230v and whatever current is passing through the light!

ALSO RED insulating tape?????

why are you using an incorrect colour to identify what you perceive to be a live conductor?

IF it was permissible you would be using BROWN not RED!

or isn't the new wiring done to the correct blue/brown/black/grey colour codes?

So' date=' question is, is this `safe` to continue using? would it pass tests?

Simon[/quote']

No its not.

and no it wouldn't!

obviously it would appear to work...

but them my car appears to work with no water in the washer bottle..

and an air bubble in the hydraulic brake fluid...

that is until my windscreen gets cacked up an I want to stop quickly!!!!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

ok heres the pic :

I assume from your picture that the "two pairs of supply in & supply out"

at the upstairs & downstairs switches are on two different circuits?

e.g. FUSES or MCBs at your fuse box...

because if so.. it looks like your two circuits are not isolated from each other by that drawing,

In which case? is it a split load 17th edition compliant CU

OR do you actually only have one lighting circuit..

but you just like looping loads of extra wires in???

and your three core & E is carrying 230v from TWO DIFFERENT supplies!! :_| :_| :_|

That most definitely needs sorting out !!

as it does look very DIY amateurish!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I worked out that I will need 5 cables between,a live feed, 2 switching commons, and 2 more strappers

in a single system, I need a 3core, so yes I know that suggests that 3 wires needed for 2 systems, but cant the live feed be used as a strapper on both switching circuits? ( ran a simulation of that in a PCB design program and that worked? )

so I only need 5 ?

hence a 2c&e extra?

please confirm

NO!

on your existing drawing...

the upstairs light is alternately supplied from the supply #1 then supply #2..

assuming these are separate circuits then this is seriously bad..

ONE LAMP FED FROM TWO CIRCUITS!!!

in its simplest form all you needed was a supply to each light

a twin + earth to the first switch then a 3core &E to the second switch..

then double it up for the other circuit!

As KME says..

its a bit of a pigs breakfast how this has been done!!!

when all that was needed was..

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/SPECIALLOCATION/twowayswitching-1.jpg

two or three cables at light

two cables at one switch

on cable at the other.

 

[bazza_uk74]

Hello welcome to the forum... just looking through this thread and there are a lot of serious issues that do concern me.

I will try to be as clear as I can..

and hope you take them in the context they are ment...

here goes..

Quote:

I have got myself my first house, and I have paid a sparky to re-wire it, but he missed a cable out on the 2way upstairs/downstairs lighting ( as well as the front lounge & back dinning rooms. )

erm....

Paid a sparky to re-wire it.. thus assume;

1/ You have an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work done.

2/ It has been notified to the LABC and you have a compliance certificate (received or due)

Question: Did the spark self certify his work and is he a member of one of the approved part P schemes?

If yes to the above then

IMHO you tell the sparky to come back and put right his c0ck-up at his own expense then???

Or...

follow the complaints procedure through his scheme provider to put it right?

Or...

did you not have a written quote agreement stipulating the work to be done??

for ANY major works.. a reputable spark should provide some written agreement

of schedule of work to do & costs?

Or are we talking a back-hander no certificates do it quick and cheep job?

The Sparky worked for a company, ( I dont want to name ) Thos he did this off his own back at the weekends. He can`t certificate this himself, his qualification test is later this year. The company he worked for were asked to do the job, but after 3 weeks and several phonecalls, they failed to give a quote for the job. the sparky who did the job worked also on my dad`s house on bigger job than mine, and that worked out fine.

So unfortuantly, I have no `official` paperwork to say this was done.

Quote:

the thing is, when we realised that more cables were needed - it was too late, all walls were plastered and papered, ready for paint. - Could not go back as a tight schedule to move in on time.

pull out the two supply loop in and out cables..

that will leave enough room for a 3core & earth (smaller than 2 x T&E)!

There were channels cut out of the wall, the cables layed in and then plastered over. if I were to pull a cable out it would damaged the walls.I mentioned above that I may have the time to out out the wall again and put a new cable in, but I realised this morning that would be inpossible, as the cable (upstairs) runs thro a stud partition, and the room each side of that is now complete, so I cant disturb that wall. There is no other way of getting another cable between the switches. ( what are these remote ones guys are on about - never knew about them ? )

If I could route new cables I would for sure.

Quote:

I have covered the earth wire with a PVC sheaf and coated that in red insulating tape.

No you haven't!

you may have covered the exposed ends of the wire

but NOT the whole uninsulated length down the run of the cable.

it is predominantly an UNINSULATED conductor.

as one of the other guys said

the bare wire is sheathed against mechanical damaged..

BUT NOT insulted to carry 230v and whatever current is passing through the light!

ALSO RED insulating tape?????

why are you using an incorrect colour to identify what you perceive to be a live conductor?

IF it was permissible you would be using BROWN not RED!

or isn't the new wiring done to the correct blue/brown/black/grey colour codes?

Red tape I know is the incorrect colour - just what I had to hand at the time, either that or yellow. All wiring in the house is new, so new colours throughout

I understand that yeah, the earth is not insulated as a live within the cable run, hence I was origianlly worried and posted this. The thing is, other than that point, I am confident that its `safe` as even if the wire touches anynthing else, it would be exaclty the same as a real live touching, - the CU would trip. The temporary live (e) would be protected in the same way as a real live. Tho please understand that I do know that is not a good enough excuse, but can you see why I questioned its use?

Quote:

So, question is, is this `safe` to continue using? would it pass tests?

Simon

No its not.

and no it wouldn't!

obviously it would appear to work...

but them my car appears to work with no water in the washer bottle..

and an air bubble in the hydraulic brake fluid...

that is until my windscreen gets cacked up an I want to stop quickly!!!!

I`m quite sure too that it would not pass. We plan to get that done in the very near future, - just need to put a ringmain in the garage, and wire up external security lights.

 

[bazza_uk74]

On a final note, I know the only 2 options I have is to replace the cables

or to add a remote

I will look into adding a remote, tho I never seen these before.

Replacing the cables, I realise in impossible now unless I want to redecorate several rooms again ( due to the path of the runs )

As we have just finished and the carpets are going in today, then thats not possible.

Thanks for all ur time guys.

Simon.

 

[bazza_uk74]

I assume from your picture that the "two pairs of supply in & supply out"at the upstairs & downstairs switches are on two different circuits?

e.g. FUSES or MCBs at your fuse box...

because if so.. it looks like your two circuits are not isolated from each other by that drawing,

In which case? is it a split load 17th edition compliant CU

OR do you actually only have one lighting circuit..

but you just like looping loads of extra wires in???

and your three core & E is carrying 230v from TWO DIFFERENT supplies!! :_| :_| :_|

That most definitely needs sorting out !!

as it does look very DIY amateurish!

yeah its 2 circuits, I realise about them both feeding the lights & cables,

I will disconnect it all when I get home, and leave one switch per light - separete.

As for the `DIY amature - yes that is me lol, but The sparky is qualifed, I just believe he missunderstood what I wanted, and as no schedule to work to, he forgot.

I modded his set up, but onyl to see if I could get it working, but hey, true cowboys would of left it like that lol, at least I realised the possible error and problem and questioned people about it! I do like to do things properly!

Put it this way, If I `did` do it myself, I would of got it right & safe lol. I can and have wired up before, and it all checked out ok. I have not connected a CU before tho.

anyway, I`m leaving it as this :

I will discon the wiring, and leave it safe. I will leave it as it was by the sparky.

Thanks all.

Simon

 

[Lec]

On a final note, I know the only 2 options I have is to replace the cablesor to add a remote

I will look into adding a remote, tho I never seen these before.

Simon.

Hi Simon

We sell the GET wireless lighting controllers

They require receivers on each light fitting and the switches are battery powered.

 

[Andy™]

So unfortuantly, I have no `official` paperwork to say this was done.

i hope you dont plan to sell the house.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

You had the job done on the cheap and now you have to live with an unsafe & unsatisfactory installation.

 

[elvis]

Take the various points but I v. seldom wire feeds to switches, over the course of a year those switch drops add up in metres...

The only way you can do it is if the live feed in or out of the downstairs switch is either the live feed in or out of the upstairs switch... ie you have a T&E between the two switches (as well as the 3 core), in which case you could use the brown core of that T&E as the extra strapper.

From looking at your drawing you have a feed looping across the L2 terminals of your upstairs switch and a separate feed looping across the L2 terminals of the downstairs switch (one of which you don't need.)

This will only work if the loop feed goes directly from downstairs switch to upstairs switch and, if so, I suspect this is the plan yer man had in place before he went on his holibags...

If the feed loops to another switch first we''re back to the old putting the missus in the dark when she's havin a jobbie again!!

 

[elvis]

Sorry guys, thought I had read all the posts... didnae realise it was two circuits. And, having said that, yer man hadnae a clue whit he wis dain'!!

 

[Apache]

elvis - you can go to edit, then delete your post if you don't want to look like a wally

 

[Andy™]

am i alone in thinking part p isnt working?

 

[elvis]

What difference would it make... have to shave in front of the mirror every morning anyway!! Blushing

 

[Robojin]

There were channels cut out of the wall, the cables layed in and then plastered over.

Dare I ask about an RCD on this circuit, or will I get an answer I don't like

 

[Andy™]

Dare I ask about an RCD on this circuit, or will I get an answer I don't like

probably the same side to stop it tripping....