More rolling stock has been added to the Gravy Train .

[Evans Electric]

I read , yet again ,   in the latest NICELC  Connections Magazine that another register is being created for  Electricians who are "Qualified" to carry out Landlord's Rental  Inspections .  

You need to be on the PRS  register . 

Domestic Installers are NOT included .

You need  18th Edition   

£250,000  Professional  Indemnity  Insurance .

An extra half day /year assessment to verify competence in testing .             (  Please note ;-   This is the very same testing we all carry out on new installs , rewires, board changes,  adding a circuit etc   )   

I present the following scenario for discussion or derision .

I rewire  an empty house for a client , I test it , I submit an  Elect. Inst. Certificate  , I notify LBC .  

The client then says "   We're not going to move in here  , we're going to rent it .

a)    My cert becomes unacceptable  because I'm not qualified to test rented premises .  

b)   A third party will need to be paid to  re-test my work & certify as an EICR  .

c)    NICEIC /ELECSA   do not accept third party testing & certing . .

d)   So Napit  , who DO accept third  testing would have to attend  instead .  

I feel a letter to my MP  brewing .     Does this happen in Scotland ...NO..because they have more common sense than us .  

 

[ProDave]

It is not quite as bad in Scotland, they accept ordinary membership of any of the scams.

BUT without being a member of anything, I can wire a new house, sign the EIC and give it to building control and they accept it, most recent one finished in March this year just before the lockdown. 

And as I am not a member of any of the scams, I cannot do rental EICR;s any more.

So it is perhaps more silly then England.  I can do everything without being a member of a scam. except an EICR for a rental.  I can still do an EICR for any other purpose.

Less than 3 years to retirement. Tick tock, tick tock......

 

[boltonsparky]

I predicted some rubbish like this coming along in a post on another thread and it being turned into a cash cow.

I've just rechecked the guidance on the legislation. Unless I've misinterpreted it the text in red suggests there is no requirement to be enrolled. The issue will be when landlords/letting agents etc start demanding a perfectly competent and qualified non member must be a member of a scam. 

The whole competent/approved/part P thing wants scrapping and starting again. 

How do I find a ‘qualified and competent person’ to carry out the test?

The Regulations require landlords to have the electrical installations in their properties inspected and tested by a person who is qualified and competent, at least every 5 years.

Guidance has been produced by the electrical safety industry that covers how landlords can choose a qualified and competent inspector and tester. This includes, but is not limited to:

Electrical Safety Roundtable

Registered Competent Person Electrical single mark and register

The electrical safety industry has established competent person schemes. Membership of these will not be compulsory to ensure there is no further pressure placed on the industry, nor undue burden placed on inspectors and testers.

When commissioning an inspection, in order to establish if a person is qualified and competent landlords can:

check if the inspector is a member of a competent person scheme; or

require the inspector to sign a checklist certifying their competence, including their experience, whether they have adequate insurance and hold a qualification covering the current version of the Wiring Regulations and the periodic inspection, testing and certification of electrical installations.

 

[boltonsparky]

BUT without being a member of anything, I can wire a new house, sign the EIC and give it to building control and they accept it, most recent one finished in March this year just before the lockdown. 

Out of interest do they charge you a fee for this? My local one wanted copies of my quals and then a fee of around £300 when I rewired my house, I gave them an EIC once complete, just the standard format one from the regs, nothing was done by them other than a very brief site visit by a building control inspector who himself admitted he wasn't electrically trained and had no idea what he was looking at, didn't even go upstairs. 

 

[ProDave]

Out of interest do they charge you a fee for this? My local one wanted copies of my quals and then a fee of around £300 when I rewired my house, I gave them an EIC once complete, just the standard format one from the regs, nothing was done by them other than a very brief site visit by a building control inspector who himself admitted he wasn't electrically trained and had no idea what he was looking at, didn't even go upstairs. 

Not in Scotland, we don't have part P.  (I used to get told off for saying that)

 

[Andy™]

dont believe everything you read.. especially from NIC.... they can make a 'register' if they want, however the actual law for rental properties does not require it, so you can do them if you want without paying them extra for... er... not doing much

 

[Evans Electric]

Not in Scotland, we don't have part P.  (I used to get told off for saying that)

You still do  ....its just that you haven't said it  for a while .   :redcard

 

[Evans Electric]

Another scenario regarding rental testing :-      

I'm asked by regular customer to do an EICR , I tell them I can't do them any more  as I'm not qualified .

They get a "qualified " tester in who finds some work needs carrying out  , say some C2 s  .

They ask me to do the  C2 work  which meant rewiring a circuit ...so I have to test it ...but wait !!!  I'm not allowed to test rental properties ...so I now ignore Part P of the Regs  and walk away . 

The "Qualified "  tester must return to re-issue a "Satisfactory"   cert .    But   WAIT!!!!   He.s NICEIC  and they don't allow third party testing ...so they have to employ a NAPIT man who can .  

Cynical !!!   Me !!!   :C    

 

[Andy™]

I'm asked by regular customer to do an EICR , I tell them I can't do them any more  as I'm not qualified .

you can do them. forget what the scams say, have a read of the actual legislation. they will always say whatever works best for them, regardless of what the actual requirements are

 

[Evans Electric]

Thing is ,  the requirements also   include  £250,000    insurance  &  18th edit qualification  .  Probably not worth me taking out  indemnity insurance  and  I won't be taking the 18th  .  the 17th cost me  about £400    , working two days a week now  , I'm out of the running ...   over 50 yrs experience  is not a consideration .  

I would like to pursue  the point that the original installation sparks cannot  return in 5 yrs  to run an EICR  on the premises ...WHEN ITS THE SAME DAMN TEST !!!!!!! ..... he carried to pass off his original wiring .   

No good writing to my MP  because he,s never replied  in the past ...thinking of writing to my previous MP  , now in the House of Lords. 

 

[Andy™]

well to be fair, you should have 18th anyway for any electrical work, and its always been a good idea to have indemnity insurance for EICR's

really, nothing that affects us has changed. the only real change is that is now madatory for the landlord to have it done rather than recommended. as far as BS7671 etc goes, its still the same as before

 

[ProDave]

Thing is ,  the requirements also   include  £250,000    insurance  &  18th edit qualification  .  Probably not worth me taking out  indemnity insurance  and  I won't be taking the 18th  .  the 17th cost me  about £400    , working two days a week now  , I'm out of the running ...   over 50 yrs experience  is not a consideration .  

That's about the situation I am in. I am happy just to wind down now and not bothered about the big jobs any more. But my PL is £1m I think or might be 2 it really is not expensive, i am with Direct Line for that at the moment.

 

[Andy™]

That's about the situation I am in. I am happy just to wind down now and not bothered about the big jobs any more. But my PL is £1m I think or might be 2

PLI & PII insurance are 2 different things

 

[Sharpend]

Can I just say that when I was registered with Napit from 2004-2008 I had to have both PL and PI, when asked what PI was for they said it basically covered me for any advice given when carrying out PIR’s as they were known. Don’t know if this still applies but didn’t need a separate register then so don’t see need for one now? Moving goalposts springs to mind? 
I still have both PL and PI for my own peace of mind. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Have a look at the Electrical safety first guide for landlords..

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/u5gpmrzz/landlords-guide-england-and-wales-june-2020.pdf

Section 2 page 4 states that it is responsibility of the landlord to check the person doing an inspection is competent.

(using one of the registered contractor schemes is one-way...  (But NOT the only way1)

Section 5 page 9 gives a nice picture of a generic non-logoed EICR...

I am quite happy to provide a non-logoed EICR for any customers who consider me competent..

I can show my competence by electrical qualifications.. 

Including the industry recognised C&G 2391 which I have held since May 2000..      

Which up until that start of this month....

I was considered competent to do Periodic inpections... as long as I don't go issuing any Logoed EICR's,

(which would have implied that I had paid the Logo holders to jump through their additional hoops! )

The thing is.... 

we all know some "electricians" aren't actually competent to inspect anything..   

BUT...         Also...

Some Landlords aren't competent to rent a deck-chair.. let alone a whole house!!

:C

 

[boltonsparky]

It does baffle me why they have to make everything so vague, confusing and difficult.

All it needs is one governing body that you must be registered with to do any electrical work more than changing a wiring accessory. Keep the fees to register at one annual amount no matter what area you cover and keep the cost at a reasonable level.

Have an approval/ID card that states your qualifications and what you can and can't work on/do with the qualifications you have. 

Jobs a good un.

Works for gas.

Keep it simple.

 

[binky]

It does baffle me why they have to make everything so vague, confusing and difficult.

All it needs is one governing body that you must be registered with to do any electrical work more than changing a wiring accessory. Keep the fees to register at one annual amount no matter what area you cover and keep the cost at a reasonable level.

Have an approval/ID card that states your qualifications and what you can and can't work on/do with the qualifications you have. 

Jobs a good un.

Works for gas.

Keep it simple.

A single govening body, but that would mean the government setting up a new dept that can't be exploited for profit - that's just not how free market capitalism works, and certainly not how the Tory party works since the days of Thatcher. They've even 'outsourced' the HSE! 

As for gas, OK it's a single body, but that is also a profit making business and the current holder of the register got it by under-bidding CORGI, and so the race to the bottom continues. 

 

[Murdoch]

I still have both PL and PI for my own peace of mind. 

me too

It does baffle me why they have to make everything so vague, confusing and difficult.

hit, nail and head springs to mind

 

[Sharpend]

The race to the bottom only continues if we continue to participate. The large companies will race to the bottom and explode, there have been a few recent examples of this -Carillion etc. It will need a seismic change in thinking of those at the top to change how capitalism and free market works. The truth is it doesn’t work we are told it works that often that we then believe it too. Only the wise amongst us know it’s a false fallacy. 

 

[Geoff1946]

I'm just trying to get my head around whether or not a, "false fallacy",  must be true.