National living wage

[phil d]

Just thought I'd throw this one out and see what you chaps think about it.

Apart from the obvious current new topics that are starting to drive me daft, I'm referring to how the world is going to end after Brexit, and how almost everything from driving a diesel car to cows farting will lead us hurtling into an almost apocalyptic situation caused by global warming. What, I wondered is everyone's view on the so-called 'living wage'?  There are constant calls for it to be increased, however no-one seems to be at all bothered about increasing the wage of anyone else!

If you look at the current value of the living wage, you will see that it is not far behind what some tradespeople are earning, now look at it this way, you can work in a supermarket stacking shelves, it's 9 to 5, you have no responsibilities after your shift ends, there's very little that you do that could land you in court, you don't have to lay out a small fortune on tools, books, exams and courses, your training probably takes a week, and you don't get people ringing up with stupid questions at 10 pm!

Now lets consider the electrician, you have to spend several years learning how to do your job, you spend a small fortune on tools and equipment, then even after qualifying, every few years you have to dig into your savings for some new course, or book or whatever. You work unsociable hours, often in inhospitable environments, sweating in a loft in summer, freezing outside in winter, make a mistake and you could not only end up in court but potentially kill someone, add to this the recent trend towards blaming the electrician, regardless of whose fault it actually was, and with the way things are going, quite soon it will be for very little more than a guy gets for stacking shelves in the local supermarket, and they say they can't understand why people don't want to take up a trade these days. If you were just leaving school and looking for a job, would you, still enter the trade? to be honest, I'm not sure I would!

 

[ProDave]

So what is the living wage now?

While I don't do that much work, I an damned sure that what I do I get pad more than twice the living wage.

 

[phil d]

So what is the living wage now?

While I don't do that much work, I an damned sure that what I do I get pad more than twice the living wage.

At the moment, I believe it's a shade under £8 and is due to rise in April, Now recently I've seen a lot of adverts for sparks offering anything between £9 and £12 per hour, usual stuff, must be qualified to current regs, own tools, etc, some even expect you to have your own test gear, a few even want you to use your own vehicle. I suppose it's aimed at people from Eastern Europe, £9 an hour is probably a fortune to them, but as I said in my earlier post, for what we do, we have to be worth more than that, plus when you look at how many people haven't had a wage rise in recent years, it won't be long, given that the, minimum/living wage increases year on year that it will reach an equal level with some of the lower paid trades. Now I'm now saying people shouldn't have a decent wage, they should, but when an unskilled person gets nearly, or as much as a skilled person, it's wrong.

It's a bit like a comment a young lad came out with when we were discussing jobs, " well, it's alright for you, you've got a trade, I left school with nothing" he moaned, now I know standards of education have fallen over the years, but when I left school I had a number of CSE's, it took several years of college and hard work to get a C&G, if some of these youngsters want a trade, or a qualification, they need to do what we did, go out and work for it.

 

[Sharpend]

That’s the downfall Phil, they a) don’t want to work for it —no pride as they live in a throw away society so don’t know what it is to take pride in what you do or achieve; b) they don’t need to work for it as unskilled work is moving ever closer to skillled pay. 

I’ve long said the jib rates are way out of touch, ok so if your an employed spark with the holidays,vehicles,phone etc then maybe not but for the subby it doesn’t come close to a reasonable wage. 

 

[Geoff1946]

When kids complain, "I left school with nothing", I really have to wonder, "And who's fault is that?  Did you actually TRY to learn anything?   

 

[Sharpend]

Can you define TRY please? 

You either do something or you don’t, so they either attended and learnt or attended and didn’t learn? 

 

[Geoff1946]

Learning requires effort on the part of the student. To listen, to understand, to do set work, etc  Some will make that effort, some won't.

 

[Sharpend]

Learning requires effort on the part of the student. To listen, to understand, to do set work, etc  Some will make that effort, some won't.

Exactly my point Geoff. They will either do it or not, they can’t even TRY to fail. 

 

[phil d]

Exactly my point Geoff. They will either do it or not, they can’t even TRY to fail. 

It's like recently, there's been a big thing about parents expecting schools to toilet train and be responsible for every aspect of their childs upbringing, it's wrong, when you decide to have kids they are your problem, not mine. My biggest hate is holidays, the number of times I see parents relaxing over a beer while their kids cause mayhem, "but we're on holiday" is their all to often reply. well fine, have a holiday, but you're kids are still your responsibility, not mine or anyone else's

 

[Sharpend]

Never mind holiday attitudes what about our in a public place. Boy Am I sick and tired of going out for something to eat and kids are screaming and screeching with the parents apparently oblivious to it. Back in our day we dare not make a show in public otherwise it was a smack across the arse or legs with a further punishment when home if behaviour deemed necessary. 

I guess that’s the problem with the liberal attitudes of today we become a society that is supposed to care but in fact actually don’t. 

 

[phil d]

Never mind holiday attitudes what about our in a public place. Boy Am I sick and tired of going out for something to eat and kids are screaming and screeching with the parents apparently oblivious to it. Back in our day we dare not make a show in public otherwise it was a smack across the arse or legs with a further punishment when home if behaviour deemed necessary. 

I guess that’s the problem with the liberal attitudes of today we become a society that is supposed to care but in fact actually don’t. 

" right, when we get in here, sit down, keep your mouth shut, dont ask for anything and don't touch anything, or so help me god, I'll give you a right pasting when we get home".

Does that sound familiar to you?

 

[Sharpend]

Do we share dads!

 

[phil d]

Do we share dads!

I don't think I had one, judging by the number of times ,my mum would catch me doing something and scream out "come here you little b"£$%&*D

 

[phil d]

There was even an article a while back blaming a lot of the bad youth behaviour on grandparents, lets be honest back in my day if your parents didn't jump all over you, no doubt your grandma would. I thought my grandma was god when I was young, I remember one day in church and the vicar saying god was everywhere.  I remember that whenever I thought I could get away with anything, grandma would pop up and catch me, therefore it was simple, my grandma was god. lol

Still if nothing else we were taught how to behave and how to respect our elders, I had some young pup call me a daft old c**t outside the pub the other week!

 

[Sharpend]

Ah GRANDparents weren’t they Grand. 

As for the silly mouthed younsters, I tell them not to be jealous it will come to them too! 

 

[phil d]

Ah GRANDparents weren’t they Grand. 

As for the silly mouthed younsters, I tell them not to be jealous it will come to them too! 

Sadly my grandad on my fathers side died when I was about 9, my other grandad died before I was born, my dads dad was a top bloke and I've loads of fond memories of him, if I can leave my grandson with half the memories my grandad left me then I'll be a happy bloke. we used to spend the summer holidays at his caravan in Towyn, he liked a bet and a pint and my gran would go mad at him, he used to tell her he was taking me out, we'd go to the bookies, put his bets on, then go over the road to the pub and watch the races, he'd have a pint and I'd have an orange cordial. a few years ago I went back to the pub with my wife and got talking to an old guy sat at the bar, it turned out he was the old landlord and he brought a younger woman out to see me, she was his daughter and now ran the pub, she was a similar age to me and it turned out we used to knock about together when we were younger and I was at the caravan.

 

[Sharpend]

A nice end to a good memory. 

 

[binky]

Learning requires effort on the part of the student. To listen, to understand, to do set work, etc  Some will make that effort, some won't.

it also requires parents who value education and make sure their kids pull their fingers out of their fat arses!!!

Ever notice how the immigrant communities push their children to study and learn and get a good education, whilst are own feckless twots moan that immigrants get all the jobs.....

 

[phil d]

it also requires parents who value education and make sure their kids pull their fingers out of their fat arses!!!

Ever notice how the immigrant communities push their children to study and learn and get a good education, whilst are own feckless twots moan that immigrants get all the jobs.....

Exactly, I'mone of the worst for moaning about immigrants, but that's another story, still as you say they do push their kids to learn. a lot of ours seem happy if their kids learn how to claim benefits.

Too many of our kids grow up with unreasonable expectations, they either want to be a pop star or a footballer, or some other type of celebrity, if they can't be that then they don't want to do anything. Whatever happened to the old saying, "if you can't be what you want then be the best at what you can be".

 

[binky]

Probably the same as what happend to 'you need to earn a living'  :^O