Need main bonding, but is my CU wiring dangerous?!

[europa]

OK. I will complain, but, given i'm not a spark, i'm sure the agency will want to know why i am complaining. So do me a favour guys: please tell me what the main problem with the report is.

 

[ProDave]

There seems to be 3 issued here:

1: you got a "dud" report. ask for your money back and get it done again.

2: The age old debate about no rcd protection, is it a pass or a fail? what code should be given.  I know of some people that will give a C2 to no rcd on lights even if there is an rcd on the sockets.  I would ask is it a first floor or ground floor flat? If ground floor there's a reasonable chance of someone using stuff outside so you really should have rcd protection on sockets.

3: For a few hundred £ you could have a shiny new consumer unit with no issues thus making it a better and safer installation, so that would definitely be my recommendation.

As a Landlord, you have to show you have taken all reasonable steps to make a property safe for a tenant.  Even if the EICR only gave a C3 and recommended a CU change, if you chose to ignore that, and someone using an extension lead and a drill outside then killed themself, it probably would be argued in court, that you ignored the advice to upgrade the consumer unit, thus you did not take all reasonable measures to make the proerty safe.

 

[kerching]

Oh dear...

2 C1s.  That are not even mentioned

says gas and water bond is satisfactory.........yet codes it

no main bonding....yet he can tell,you what size it is

IF sockets,are on a radial,then MCB is TOO large.....IF they are on a ring HE HAS NOT TESTED THEM

CPC 1.5 for 6mm.....doubt it

.         1.5 for 1.5........doubt it unless in conduit and singles

but it says it is insulated and sheathed

loads more but I am WAY too busy to list them

look at it this way...its your property....someone gets hurt.....it goes to,Court....do you feel lucky ?

 

[europa]

Re page 7 (schedule of circuit details), i assume the circuit numbers refer to the MCBs. If so, i'm wondering why he's listed smoke and water heater. I have neither a mains-operated smoke alarm nor a water heater (unless that's the combi boiler). Anyway, from left to right, circuits 2 and 3 should be downstairs and upstairs sockets respectively; and 5 and 6 the downstairs and upstairs lighting circuits. Am i being stupid and missing sth?  

 

[ProDave]

Re page 7 (schedule of circuit details), i assume the circuit numbers refer to the MCBs. If so, i'm wondering why he's listed smoke and water heater. I have neither a mains-operated smoke alarm nor a water heater (unless that's the combi boiler). Anyway, from left to right, circuits 2 and 3 should be downstairs and upstairs sockets respectively; and 5 and 6 the downstairs and upstairs lighting circuits. Am i being stupid and missing sth?  

Yet more proof he was imcompetent and the report is verging on fraud.

Sometimes on an old fuse box, with nothing labelled it can take some time to identify what all the circuits really do. A circuit, now disused, to where a water tank used to be is a common one (would have been for an immersion heater but now a combi boiler is fitted and no hot tank any more)

P.S What are the rules in England re smoke detectors?  Up here, rental properties must now have mains powered interlinked smoke alarms, a heat alarm in the kitchen, and a CO alarm wherever there is a combustion appliance, e.g. boiler or open fire.

 

[europa]

Yet more proof he was imcompetent and the report is verging on fraud.

Sometimes on an old fuse box, with nothing labelled it can take some time to identify what all the circuits really do. A circuit, now disused, to where a water tank used to be is a common one (would have been for an immersion heater but now a combi boiler is fitted and no hot tank any more)

P.S What are the rules in England re smoke detectors?  Up here, rental properties must now have mains powered interlinked smoke alarms, a heat alarm in the kitchen, and a CO alarm wherever there is a combustion appliance, e.g. boiler or open fire.

smoke detector on all storeys - check; co alarm where combustion appliance - check. so no need for mains-connected alarms.

Everyone

Thanks a lot for your help. I have complained and asked for a refund. I will get the CU replaced as you all suggest. If anyone can recommend a properly-qualified electrician working in SE London to do the work (and issue a proper certificate), i would be grateful! Otherwise i am just relying on pot luck with whomever i get in.

 

[Murdoch]

I love the "general condition of installation comment"

Not safe!

What a muppet.

A proper EICR on a flat may take up to 3 hours on site, then 1 more at home to deal with the documentation......

Out of interest how did you remove the address and sparks details from the EICR?

 

[europa]

Out of interest how did you remove the address and sparks details from the EICR?

One of the the wonders of Adobe Acrobat! Just go to Edit PDF and delete/change whatever you want! It is generally thought that PDFs can't be altered, but often they can be!

Feedback from the agency following my complaint:

"The engineer said he made an administration error, but find hard to beleive and will be doing a full investigation why this has happened."

Again, if anyone can recommend a spark who works in SE London, it'd be appreciated!

 

[ProDave]

smoke detector on all storeys - check; co alarm where combustion appliance - check. so no need for mains-connected alarms.

I would check that is the case that you are allowed battery powered alarms, they all have to be mains powered now up here, and interlinked so if one sounds, they all sound.

 

[roys]

Fair play to Europa he is trying to do the right thing, sorry I can't advise on a local spark.

 

[Murdoch]

One of the the wonders of Adobe Acrobat! Just go to Edit PDF and delete/change whatever you want! It is generally thought that PDFs can't be altered, but often they can be!

Feedback from the agency following my complaint:

"The engineer said he made an administration error, but find hard to believe and will be doing a full investigation why this has happened."

Again, if anyone can recommend a spark who works in SE London, it'd be appreciated!

An administrative error - more like he didn't expect you to get it checked.........

 

[ProDave]

An administrative error - more like he didn't expect you to get it checked.........

I was called to do the remedials at a house someone else had EICR'd. There were  a lot of C2's many I didn't agree with so I challenged the original electrician to justify then. He repled by saying he made a "clerical error" amd most of the C2's turned into C3's.

 

[europa]

Yeh, imagine how many laymen (like me) have received a similar report and just taken it for granted! I would have never known had i not posted it!

 

[Murdoch]

Yeh, imagine how many laymen (like me) have received a similar report and just taken it for granted! I would have never known had i not posted it!

There is a "best practice guide" number 4 if my memory serves me correctly, on the Electrical Safety Council website. This outlines the EICR's and has examples of what would be C1, C2 and C3 codes...

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

Happy reading.

Sadly there are too many cowboys who go around scaring people saying electrical installations are "illegal" or dangerous ............ or doing the reports without visiting the properties.

In your case 1 hour is not enough and quite how he N/A the Zs for one of the socket circuits is beyond me.

Was the sparky self employed or an employee of a company?

 

[Sharpend]

Personally I'd get a copy of it mailed over to Napit CEO (see below) asking for their explanation of their assessed member?? 

mailto:[email protected]

 

[Blue Duck]

the sparky tester probably gets £20 per test if he can do perhaps 5 in a day then he's got food on the table.

It's the agency that make the money on it, they just see it as a bit of paper and do not realise the true meaning of the certificate.

It's just a money spinner for them.

If he had given a satisfactory and your flat burned down due to an electrical fire the next day and someone died it would be him up in court against HSE and whoever else wanted to prosecute him for negligence.

 

[ProDave]

There is a "best practice guide" number 4 if my memory serves me correctly, on the Electrical Safety Council website. This outlines the EICR's and has examples of what would be C1, C2 and C3 codes...

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

That's an excellent link.

It makes 2 things clear. A rewireable fuse box CAN still be satisfactory.  And lack of rcd protection on a socket circuit is only a failure of it's feeding bathroom sockets, sockets where oiutdoor stuff may be plugged in, or on a TT system.

 

[Andy™]

Here's the EICR.

View attachment 6871

sorry, but :slap

there is soo much wrong with that 'report'

complain, get a refund then got someone who knows what they are doing

 

[kerching]

I would like to know what makes him an 'Engineer'!

i wonder how many more certs he has issued like this and got paid for!

 

[kerching]

I would like to know what makes him an 'Engineer'!

i wonder how many more certs he has issued like this and got paid for!

so i have looked a bit more....

there is NO RCD?.....correct?

yet he states there is a BS 4293 RCD.  AND that he has tested the operating button

a number of ccts....Max measured Zs is down as n/a

i think this is more than an administrative error....more verging on 'taking money under false pretences/fraud'

but what do i know, I have only being doing the job for over 40 years