Neutral at light switch?

[europa]

Doing a complete house renovation.

My contractor's electrician said he would normally just wire live and switched live at each light switch. Is it not considered standard practice these days to include neutral at the switch as well? 

 

[Murdoch]

No. Different sparks do different things. There is no right or wrong

 

[europa]

No. Different sparks do different things. There is no right or wrong

OK, thanks; that's good to know. I must have got my wires crossed somewhere ;-)

 

[binky]

you are thinking of 'switch - fed' whereby we take live an neutral to the light switch then straight to the light. Sometimes this works better than traditional wiring, sometimes it doesn't. Perrsonally I don't like it as having available neutral and live in the ceiling void can save unnecessary hassle in future if re-arranging lighting design.

 

[europa]

you are thinking of 'switch - fed' whereby we take live an neutral to the light switch then straight to the light. Sometimes this works better than traditional wiring, sometimes it doesn't. Perrsonally I don't like it as having available neutral and live in the ceiling void can save unnecessary hassle in future if re-arranging lighting design.

Food for thought, thanks. So when do they work better?

 

[Murdoch]

Food for thought, thanks. So when do they work better?

For downlights downstairs ...

Best decide on all your light fittings and discuss with your spark.

NB: I've just rewired a bungalow, and have fitted standard pendants - 3 plate - then the customer asked me to swap 4 fittings for lights with no space for the connections.....

 

[Blue Duck]

you are thinking of 'switch - fed' whereby we take live an neutral to the light switch then straight to the light. Sometimes this works better than traditional wiring, sometimes it doesn't. Perrsonally I don't like it as having available neutral and live in the ceiling void can save unnecessary hassle in future if re-arranging lighting design.

^^^ this!

For downlights downstairs ...

Best decide on all your light fittings and discuss with your spark.

NB: I've just rewired a bungalow, and have fitted standard pendants - 3 plate - then the customer asked me to swap 4 fittings for lights with no space for the connections.....

+

=

 

[europa]

For downlights downstairs ...

Best decide on all your light fittings and discuss with your spark.

NB: I've just rewired a bungalow, and have fitted standard pendants - 3 plate - then the customer asked me to swap 4 fittings for lights with no space for the connections.....

I'm having downlights almost everywhere. Discussing with spark is almost impossible. Not his fault, but the contractor wants me to go thru her with everything. Problem is, she doesn't know electrics! So contractor wants me to tell her what i want, then she relays that to spark. Having said that, spark has grossly overpriced some simple automation wiring - as per my thread from yesterday. So i'm not overly confident in him anyway.

My main reason for the switch feed system is it seems to be preferable for my automation modules, although most of the modules do also technically work with two wires.

Is it more work to wire a switch-feed system [so i know whether spark should charge me more]?   

 

[Murdoch]

I'm having downlights almost everywhere. Discussing with spark is almost impossible. Not his fault, but the contractor wants me to go thru her with everything. Problem is, she doesn't know electrics! So contractor wants me to tell her what i want, then she relays that to spark. Having said that, spark has grossly overpriced some simple automation wiring - as per my thread from yesterday. So i'm not overly confident in him anyway.

My main reason for the switch feed system is it seems to be preferable for my automation modules, although most of the modules do also technically work with two wires.

Is it more work to wire a switch-feed system [so i know whether spark should charge me more]?   

Hum ..... if I were you I would be insisting having a proper constructive discussion between the 3 of you!  I always discuss the job with the client...... often directly by email, including the builder.

EDIT : I suspect the sparks isn't over priced..... her mark up is probably recuperating cost over runs on other parts of the job.

 

[rapparee]

Contractor ...... "her"....... there's your problem.  :innocent

 

[Sharpend]

I'm sorry but if you're not happy with how it's being presented to you then change who you/they want you to use, you have final say as you write the cheques? 

 

[europa]

Contractor ...... "her"....... there's your problem.  :innocent

LOL. You might well have a point there.

 

[europa]

EDIT : I suspect the sparks isn't over priced..... her mark up is probably recuperating cost over runs on other parts of the job.

You, too, may well have a point there. Although she has insisted this is the price her spark gave her!

As i suspected, they are now making a big issue of the switch-feed system. So i'm probably just going to tell them to wire normally (with neutral in ceiling). 

 

[Lurch]

I'd be looking at a different contractor after this. As an electrician I wouldn't want to work 3rd hand playing Chinese whispers, fair enough main contractor has the prices and will probably mark up my price to the client but that is just how it works. Maybe the mark ups were excessive earlier? Either way, this is sounding like it will all end up with a job you don't want. Sure it will probably function properly and look OK but it will not be a smooth process, I mean you haven't even started yet and you've had to ask for advice several times here and the general response has been 'that doesn't sound right'.

If you haven't committed to this contractor yet I'd voice your concerns and tell them you are looking at other options, and seriously consider having someone else price the job. All parties involved should be comfortable with what is happening, sounds like no-one is here.

 

[rapparee]

You, too, may well have a point there. Although she has insisted this is the price her spark gave her!

As i suspected, they are now making a big issue of the switch-feed system. So i'm probably just going to tell them to wire normally (with neutral in ceiling). 

No you say you need a neutral at the switch to make life easier for the home automation. It has to go in then. The spark is getting paid he's not there doing you a favour.

 

[europa]

I'd be looking at a different contractor after this. As an electrician I wouldn't want to work 3rd hand playing Chinese whispers, fair enough main contractor has the prices and will probably mark up my price to the client but that is just how it works. Maybe the mark ups were excessive earlier? Either way, this is sounding like it will all end up with a job you don't want. Sure it will probably function properly and look OK but it will not be a smooth process, I mean you haven't even started yet and you've had to ask for advice several times here and the general response has been 'that doesn't sound right'.

If you haven't committed to this contractor yet I'd voice your concerns and tell them you are looking at other options, and seriously consider having someone else price the job. All parties involved should be comfortable with what is happening, sounds like no-one is here.

Unfortunately, i committed to this contractor three months ago. They're now in final stages of first fix for the loft conversion, and need to start electrics. So too late to switch (tho they are making my life hell!)

No you say you need a neutral at the switch to make life easier for the home automation. It has to go in then. The spark is getting paid he's not there doing you a favour.

Not really, system can work without the neutral. At least some of the modules. I need to have another chat with automation guys to understand exactly any caveats of a two wire system. End of the day, sure spark will put the neutral in if i want - but contractor will hit me with another big mark up (as that's what they are now doing for anything that is non standard). Hence my question in the op - i was hoping three wire is now standard. Wishful thinking!

 

[Lurch]

Unfortunately, i committed to this contractor three months ago. They're now in final stages of first fix for the loft conversion, and need to start electrics. So too late to switch (tho they are making my life hell!)

Ah, OK.

Well just to echo everything else said in the thread then, neutrals can be wherever you want them, shouldn't be too much cost difference, if any really. There is no standard, or common way as such, I just wire everything as required so neutrals could be anywhere. Sometimes they might be in a switch if it is easier to do that, sometimes they aren't.

I'd discuss it with the electrician, this main contractor is being intentionally difficult and obstructive by making you go through her. I wouldn't want to do that from either side. What are you meant to do when the electrician is on site, stand there in silence and call the main contractor if you want to tell them something about the wiring?

 

[ruston]

If your designer has drawn the plans for the home automation system and interface connections  , there should be no problems for the electrician to follow that . 

 I think you are worrying over nothing , unless you do not trust the designer.

 

[europa]

That one's simple...contractor is always present, and they just don't let me on site when they're working!

Good to know there shouldn't be any cost difference; it's just going to be hard to insist if they say they need to charge more for that.

 

[ruston]

Sorry I'm a bit confused , is this your home , or are you an Agent.