Nightstor 120 Tomer

[Sobtanian]

Dear all,

I'm not an electrician, I'm a humble home owner who's now very scared of his wife. Let me tell you why.

Our trusty Nightstor 120 is fine, however the old analogue clock/timer makes a really annoying squeeky noise.

So, yours truly decided to take it out and give it a clean. I did, without paying any attention to the wiring (there were four wires and I thought there were 4 pins. Turns out there's 5). Now, I don't know how to wire it back!

I thought I'd try the heater without the timer (please don't ban me already, I'm a fool!) and it starts storing as usual (was still E7 when I was tinkering) however the water doesn't start going round the radiators when I wack the thermostat up as high as it goes so yes it's storing, no it's not heating.... And the control panel is set on "on" rather than "program" which is what we always have it on anyway.

So, please, any help!

Humbly yours,

Silly me.

EDIT: I can't post links to pictures yet if anyone can help let me know and I'll try to show you the pictures some how (email?) - thanks!

 

[ProDave]

Hopefully one of the admin staff will be along to enable image posting for you.

There's not much you can do to stop an analogue time clock making a noise.

But you can replace it with a digital one http://www.hes.co.uk/digital-timer-complete-with-harness-pr-16146.html

It says it comes with a wiring harness so hopefully that will enable you to connect it in place of the old ones. hopefully it will include instructions.

 

[Sobtanian]

Ah, I see. Yes I saw that digital one as I was searching for a solution (and found this forum!) I'm not sure if the unconnected timer is stopping the heating from coming on as such, or if I've created a different problem

 

[ProDave]

If the timer is not connected at all then there's no way that the heating pump will come on.

 

[Sobtanian]

Ok a relief thank you! I thought that perhaps having it on 'on' rather than 'program' bypasses the timer

I'll wait until I can post the pictures! I might just also order the digital timer anyway.

 

[ProDave]

You might want to consider calling a local electrician.

That replacement electronic timer is very expensive for what it is, and you still have to figure out the wiring.

If as I suspect it's only controlling the pump, then in all probability it could be wired up with an ordinary single channel central heating controller mounted externally to the boiler.  That might well work out cheaper even allowing for paying for a couple of hours labour to an electrician.  Plus I don't like those tiny little programmers that go in the boilers, some of them are very fiddly to use. An external one is usually easier to use, and can be put in a more convenient location.

 

[Sobtanian]

Thanks. I won't order a digital one just yet. We don't use the timer function at all, just lower the thermostat at night and up again in the morning.

It's just the ticking noise in the utility room is annoying.

Would it help if I post descriptions of the wiring, or just wait until I've got ten messages and can post s link to the pictures

 

[ProDave]

Well to help you get your 10 messages, start by telling me what colours the 4 wires are?

then tell me what the 5 terminals on the timer are labelled as.

 

[Sobtanian]

The five terminals are labelled, from left to right: 2 4 1 U2 U1. There's a diagram on the timer that has the 2/4/1 ones connected like an M, and U2/U1 connected with an M in a circle between then.

There are 4 wires out of the control panel: blue, brown, brown, red.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[ProDave]

Sadly not enough there to help.

U1 and U2 will be the mains in to feed the motor of the mechanical timer.

2, 4 and 1 will be the switch contacts of the timer, but which is which I can't be sure.

Blue will be neutral Brown will be live.  Are the two browns linked together? or separate wires coming from the wiring loom?

Red is probably switched live out to the pump.

A qualified electrician would be able to determine all that for certain.

Can you tell looking at the terminals which four had connectors on them (the one that didn't may be a bit more tarnished as it's exposed and bare. the ones that had terminals may have slight scratch marks visible. 

 

[Sobtanian]

The brown ones are linked, yes.

The middle terminal (1) is silver coloured, the rest bronze.

Um. They've all got scratches on them cos I tried various combos

Ps, is it me or does the forum give an error every time you post?

 

[ProDave]

Try brown to U1

Blue to U2

Brown to 1

Red to 2

If that doesn't work (the pump is on when it should be off) move the red to 4

 

[Sobtanian]

No luck

I should mention that the wires naturally rest as Blue Brown Brown Red, so trying your suggestion I had to cross the blue and brown, to connect then to U1 and U2 as you mention, which makes me think it wasn't the way it was before.

Rough diagram of what they would rest against with the timer in place:

Blue-Brown-Brown-Red

U1 - U2 -1 or 4 - 2

 

[ProDave]

The first blue / brown is feeding the motor which won't care which way round they go. But try blue to U1 and brown to U2.

When you say "no luck" what happens?

Can you hear the motor grinding away?

Does the pump turn on?  if not, try advancing the timer to turn it "off" does the pump turn on then.

Have you tried the red to 4 instead of 2? if so what happens?

 

[Blue Duck]

What is a tomer?

 

[ProDave]

What is a tomer?

I assumed a typo and he meant timer.

 

[Sobtanian]

Yes a typo.

Here's what happens with every configuration suggested, including Blue-Brown swap and 2/4: I switch the nightstor on and it does its usual clicks, and that's it. I know it's stored over night, so it should turn on. The thermostat is on the highest too, to make sure he radiators come on.

I hear nothing. The usual motor sound doesn't come on, regardless if the control panel is set on "on" or program, and irrespective of whether the timer is advanced to an on period or of one.

In short, nothing happens at all, no matter what I try. The unit is quiet. Perhaps I've broken the timer by cleaning it?

A silly question: why does the timer need to be connected if the unit is on "on"? For example, how does the unit know to stay on if the timer is connected and in an off period. I'm assuming he current won't go through by the timer, yet the unit will be on because it's not set to follow the timer. Not sure if I explained that right, because I'm sure he heating came on once without the timer connected, perhaps that's how I've broken it?

I wonder if it's time to call our helpful electrician, there's also a Nightstor specialist person nearby. I've ordered the digital timer anyway, because the ticking will drive me insane!

 

[ProDave]

It's possible in trying different combinations you have blown an internal fuse somewhere, or worse still blown something.

I think it's time you called an electrician who will fault find it for you.

If you got it working so it would come on and off with the thermostat, I was going to suggest you then disconnect the blue wire to shut the time clock motor up, since you don't use the timer.

It sounds to me like the brown wires are no longer live, but I doubt you have the means to test that.

 

[Sobtanian]

I have a multimeter, does that help?

 

[ProDave]

Be very careful.

Set the multimeter to AC Volts, if it has different ranges at least 300V

Very carefully measure between the blue and the brown(s) and see if there is any voltage.

Only do this if you feel comfortable, these are live wires and if you touch them the consequences could be serious.