no cpc and downlight nightmare

[PIP IOM]

Hi guys

Changed a C/U yesterday and tested today all ok-ish (with a few minor repairs looks like a DIY job) apart from the lighting circuits. Best if I list the issues and and ideas you can give will be greatly appreciated.

14 downlights ( not fire rated) in lounge (4 horizontally in face of central wooden beam boxing) 90mm cut out (hacked out) and they are directional tilt fittings.

the cpc's have not been interconnected and part of the floor above is tiled the carpeted bit is a difficult lift (fitted furniture etc)

Switches have cpc's present but no R2 reading (obviously a "pudding joint" up above and the lights/switches "spidered" with cpc,s disconnected)

Questions

1. Anybody know where I can get fire rated downlights (pref 12v) with >90mm cut out Also fire rated fire rated shower lights with >90mm cut out

2. If I chase the walls out and supply cpc to switches how would you feel leaving the interconnecting loops to lights with no cpc (fittings will be double ins) obviously leaving note in C/U and commenting on EIC

Guess this is why we fully test a system when changing a C/U!!!

This job was a complete disgrace. Get this a 16th edition split load board (TT system no rods) recent renovation. RCD disconnected and the two bus bars connected together with a 15amp connector block.

 

[batty]

Is there any chance you could find connection where original light was. I don't understand why you need to change to fire rated down lights on a cu change.

 

[PIP IOM]

No chance of finding original C/Lt point without floor up or ceiling down

I brought the fire rated issue up with customer and she is elligible for a 50% grant for upgrading/rewiring etc. She want the place up to scratch in one hit. Otherwise would have just been a comment on EIC

 

[Lurch]

I still don;t see why you're changing the lights though. If the customer gets a 50% grant they still have to pay 50%, which is more than nothing, so can;t see how that has any bearing on the fact the matter.

 

[paul b b]

just note on the cert about the lights not being firerated no need to replace

 

[Lurch]

just note on the cert about the lights not being firerated no need to replace

Why do they need to be fire rated?

 

[tom1]

Why do they need to be fire rated?

i would think they dont unless there is a flat above or her lounge is in the garage

 

[Lurch]

i would think they dont unless there is a flat above or her lounge is in the garage

Exactly. Everyone seems to ignore these posts and actually give any info on anything.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Exactly. Everyone seems to ignore these posts and actually give any info on anything.

There is a paranoia that everything has to be fire rated AND the highest IP rating so they could also be immune to smoke drafts and immersion in water! :|

 

[PIP IOM]

Its a three storey house and the bathroom lights are in zone 2 very close to shower (240v)

I just made those comments to customer, told her I'd make a comment on EIC and she wanted them sorted.

 

[paul b b]

i would think they dont unless there is a flat above or her lounge is in the garage

he says they are in the lounge and there is carpet upstairs with fitted funiture, so i guess this is a bedroom.

if this was a rewire you would fit firerated, so if the customer did not want them changed you would note on the cert that they were not firerated.

 

[Lurch]

if this was a rewire you would fit firerated,

I wouldn;t as there is no requirement.

so if the customer did not want them changed you would note on the cert that they were not firerated.

Why? It's not a problem as fire rated aren;t required so you can;t make a note about something that is perfectly fine.

 

[PIP IOM]

that was exactly what i was going to do. She wants them changed.

Sorry if my posts seem a bit juvenile but you're all i've got to bounce ideas off.

What may seem like a stupid question to you guys obviously is something that I've not yet come across.

I'm a 1 man band with loads of years experience in the trade, all of the relevant quals. but with minimal but growing experience of certificating/reporting.

My main issue was what to do about the non cpc'd loops to the lights under a floor (bed/bath upstairs)

I am just trying to prortect my ass and so far you guys have helped me acheive this, once again sorry for asking what may seem like "no brainers " to you, but I'm the man on the spot with the decision (what it is OK to" inform" the customer about and what constitutes a safety issue and needs replacing.)

This particular job is now a 60% rewire/C/U change etc so I think I have to treat it accordingly.

 

[Lurch]

The CPC's, whilst not ideal, is how most downlights tend to be wired. If the lights are double insulated then I'd make a note. If there's not enough slack to reterminate in JB's above the fittings then rewiring them is excessive FWIW. Have you tested continuity, are the CPC's connected at the JB end?

 

[PIP IOM]

haven't found jb(s) yet trying that today. ta

 

[paul b b]

sorry lurch im confused (as normal then lol), why are fire rated not needed? what will stop the spread of fire?

 

[Lurch]

sorry lurch im confused (as normal then lol), why are fire rated not needed? what will stop the spread of fire?

Nothing, you don;t need fire rated downlighters between the lounge and bedroom, building regs do not call for a fire rated ceiling between 2 habitable rooms above each other in this manner in the average 3 bed semi and the like. There isn;t a fire rated ceiling so why would you need to put fire rated downlights in?

 

[paul b b]

plasterboard is fire rated to 30mins (depending on thickness) and by making a hole you damadge the integrity of the plasterboard.

part B (fire safty) says you must not damadge the integrity of the building

 

[Lurch]

plasterboard is fire rated to 30mins (depending on thickness) and by making a hole you damadge the integrity of the plasterboard.

But it isn;t installed because it is 30 minute rated, it just so happens to be 30 min rated, and also it depends how it is installed, and it generally isn;t installed correctly for it to be fire rated.

As I said, there is no requirement for the ceiling to be fire rated. If you don;t know what you're doing then don;t advise customers that they need equipment fitting otherwise you're just a cowboy.

 

[ianmacd]

Requirements for fire rating is part B of building regs not 7671 so why would you mention it on a 7671 form?

If they are pre existing and not fire rated then whats the issue? Did you install them? If you were to install new ones then I would fit fire rated (and acoustic) as not to make the cieling any less protective but as Lurchie says, unless the cieling has been installed correectly it wouldn't be a suitable fire barrier anyway but its just easier to only fit fire rated ones.