Replacing Downlights

[BorisJ]

It seems all very vague, what extra time is a fire rated down light going to give you? Reason I ask is they say that a single sheet of plasterboard gives 30minutes protection but from what I’ve seen houses go up a lot quicker than 30minutes?? Reason being there is a large hole in a wall for a door which generally aren’t fire rated?

Not to mention that big hole in the ceiling where the stairs go.

 

[binky]

Cut outs for spots not noted in BS7671 but comes under Building Regs and should be fire rated if living quarters above.

that's for flats. Short answer is that you don't need fire rated anything if you aren't breaking through the boundary of a fire compartment. For a house, the only time that can happen is if you have a built-in garage, as the garage needs to be a separate fire compartment.

 

[binky]

It seems all very vague, what extra time is a fire rated down light going to give you? Reason I ask is they say that a single sheet of plasterboard gives 30minutes protection but from what I’ve seen houses go up a lot quicker than 30minutes?? Reason being there is a large hole in a wall for a door which generally aren’t fire rated?

JCC used to have a video of standard downlighter in ceiling lasting over 30mins on their website. Smoke detection on fore escape routes, ie stairs, is what you really need as most people just leave doors open anyway.

 

[joe 90]

I am looking to replace Downlights in 3 rooms with GU10 LED Fire rated Downlights. Existing downlights are square with square cut out of 85m x 85m. Outside edge of the light fitting is 95m on all 4 sides. Hight is approximately 85m. Struggling to find any Downlights that would fit this cut out and fully cover the square cut out. Anyone has any recommendation. Much appreciate.

As others have said, a single family dwelling is a single fire zone, so you don't need fire rated lights.You don't actually need a plasterboard finish either. However, I would fit them in my own home. Not because of the fire rating, but because of sound transmission. The tiniest hole in the ceiling can make a vast difference to what can be heard in a bedroom above when you are trying to sleep.
So, I would fit sound rated lights, and they will almost certainly be fire rated as well.

 

[Murdoch]

that's for flats. Short answer is that you don't need fire rated anything if you aren't breaking through the boundary of a fire compartment. For a house, the only time that can happen is if you have a built-in garage, as the garage needs to be a separate fire compartment.

It’s not all flats. Modern flats and some older ones are built properly with concrete floors and ceilings, with suspended ceilings in the accommodation.

 

[binky]

It’s not all flats. Modern flats and some older ones are built properly with concrete floors and ceilings, with suspended ceilings in the accommodation.

very true. The place I was working at this morning is purpose built flats, only 3 floors max, with concrete stairwells and ceilings / floors. Because the stairwell is concrete, you don't even need smoke protection on them if you read the fire regs properly, yet fire alarm installers have all quoted full fire panels at £4-6k....

 

[Murdoch]

very true. The place I was working at this morning is purpose built flats, only 3 floors max, with concrete stairwells and ceilings / floors. Because the stairwell is concrete, you don't even need smoke protection on them if you read the fire regs properly, yet fire alarm installers have all quoted full fire panels at £4-6k....

What bothers me are the muppets who give a C2 to downlighting’s when they clearly haven’t taken one out to check the void / ceiling above

 

[kerching]

Cut outs for spots not noted in BS7671 but comes under Building Regs and should be fire rated if living quarters above.

Really?
Things must have changed

Anyway to cover the cutout try INTEGRAL (manufacturer) they do one that will cover a 100mm diam hole and look much nicer that the 'salad plate conversions' IMHO

 

[Andy™]

Cut outs for spots not noted in BS7671 but comes under Building Regs and should be fire rated if living quarters above.

wrong. there is no reference in any standard / building regs to needing fire rated lights if 'living quaters' above. or habitable rooms as many people claim

 

[Andy™]

Notwithstanding the regs, why would you put anything other than fire rated downlighter in, for the sake of a few pence?

id expect most of us would fit fire rated for a new install / replacement. but that doesnt mean you have to rip whats already fitted if it complies

 

[MikeJhn]

The OP wish's to fit GU10 fire rated downlights into an existing ceiling with an 85mm square cut out, we seem to have gone off at a tangent.

Posted earlier: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTHCP.html

 

[Murdoch]

The OP wish's to fit GU10 fire rated downlights into an existing ceiling with an 85mm square cut out, we seem to have gone off at a tangent.

Posted earlier: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTHCP.html

Not really because they only thought they needed to change them because of incorrect advice from a letting agent

 

[kerching]

IF they need changing ( bearing in mind that the info has come from a letting agent who, by definition, is considered by most to be a .......,.,.,.,.. .. )
my offering, in my humble and bigoted opinion ( deal with it) is nicer looking

https://www.toolstation.com/integra...Ul5WbfuxJeSQ8waLB4RoCl30QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Andy™]

Not really because they only thought they needed to change them because of incorrect advice from a letting agent

more like incorrect advice from an incompetant 'electrician', of which we also seem to have a few of them here

 

[Brij]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had considered Evofire. Though Diameter is 110mm on these lights I believe, where as my existing square cut out of 85mm x 85mm will need lights with diameter of at least 120mm I think (corner to corner through centre of square). Perhaps need to use extension plate.

However, does it matter if the recommended cut out is round cut out but my existing cut out I already have is square if I use extension plate that Poni suggested?

Thanks guys

 

[poni]

However, does it matter if the recommended cut out is round cut out but my existing cut out I already have is square if I use extension plate that Poni suggested?

I think as long as your new clips fix to the ceiling (go though the square hole and hold up the new fitting ) then it should be OK,

 

[MikeJhn]

Not really because they only thought they needed to change them because of incorrect advice from a letting agent

Nope, that is only the fire rating aspect of the fitting, originally the OP just wished to fit GU10 downlight's the questioning of the need for fire rating came as an afterthought.

If the OP had just written GU10 downlight's this thread would be about thirty posts shorter.

Most fire rated downlight's have a collar of intumescent material that expands in the case of a fire to keep the integrity of the rating intact, I doubt that any solution that just covers over the existing 85mm square hole will serve that function without additional work to maintain the fire rating, if indeed required.

 

[Andy™]

Nope, that is only the fire rating aspect of the fitting, originally the OP just wished to fit GU10 downlight's the questioning of the need for fire rating came as an afterthought.

and if it wasn't questioned about why he needed fire rated then he may have been doing some unnecessary work due to bad advice...

 

[binky]

Nope, that is only the fire rating aspect of the fitting, originally the OP just wished to fit GU10 downlight's the questioning of the need for fire rating came as an afterthought.

We've had numerous questions on here driven by bad advice about fire ratings of downlights, hence the question, and yet another ongoing discussion about fire regs.

 

[Andy1733]

Sorry OP I can't advise on any downlights to use.
I've never come across any requests by letting agent to change spots/downlights though I believe HMO comply to different rules regarding fire regs over std BTL
ATM I'm in the process of building a new extension on my own property and from July 2022 most of the regs have been updated so maybe this request has been due to the updated regs.

Back to the OP question. What I would do is. Relocate the spots from the original holes slightly to one side of the original hole. Stick a piece of plasterboard in the square hole and fill it in n paint over. That way you can use any spot you want. Obv fire rated