No Earth

[kerching]

Can you explain ...."won't allow to test"
Who or what 'won't allow'?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Just been to a property that has recently been renovated. Builder has had someone in to extend the main incoming to under the stairs..no earth has been brought through with it..should we put an earth rod in or get the supplier in the thing is they are an old couple who didn't know any better and don't want to get them into trouble..suggestions please thanks in advance

OK.. I am sticking my hands up here...
as I have NOT fully read ALL previous posts...

BUT keeping basic essential safety considerations in mind... Do Not Forget: 131.1 & 132.16.
[If you don't understand those numbers then you possibly should NOT be working on electrical installations? ]

What, where and/or why does the age of the property owners have any relevance to electrical safety of potential users of the installation?

AND....

I would be very dubious and worried about the competence of anyone who has to ask on the internet how they should connect something up?

 

[apprentice87]

OR the polarity really IS wrong, hence I would want to check it.

In a similar case once before with no earth, I banged a temporary TT rod in and a wander lead to give me something I actually believed might be "earth" to measure from.

The only sensible [and fairly obvious] thing to do..

john..

 

[John t]

I'm going to put a temporary TT in and call DNO & meter company see what happens..I'm thinking cable damage..Ze is coming back 550...managed to get 0.16 Zs when piggy back neutral & earth but that's with just the gas connection to earth once I put main earth in from incoming head it reads Polarity voltage

 

[UNG]

I'm going to put a temporary TT in and call DNO & meter company see what happens..I'm thinking cable damage..Ze is coming back 550...

Save messing about with a rod just call the DNO

managed to get 0.16 Zs when piggy back neutral & earth

It is not down to your judgement to create a TNCS connection as the network infrastructure may not be setup to support this, also did you verify the polarity at the service head before doing it

but that's with just the gas connection to earth once I put main earth in from incoming head it reads Polarity voltage

So do you have the gas connection connected to a true earth or a floating earth point, have you verified whether the gas service pipe metal or plastic

 

[ProDave]

For Christ sake check the polarity from the head to the CU is connected correctly or else you are going to look totally incompetent if the DNO turns up and finds it is connected wrong between the meter and CU.

 

[binky]

You have exposed live terminals at the meter, so report as a dangerous situation and you should get a response within hours.

 

[apprentice87]

I'm going to put a temporary TT in and call DNO & meter company see what happens..I'm thinking cable damage..Ze is coming back 550...managed to get 0.16 Zs when piggy back neutral & earth but that's with just the gas connection to earth once I put main earth in from incoming head it reads Polarity voltage

I am not being funny, but i think you are MILES out of your depth here..

From the look of it, the service cable is not PILC, so it is not TNS with armour as earth..

It looks like a CNE service cable.. So, just have a look inside the cutout and it is either TNCS or it is not. [and would have to be TT instead] Bodging in an earth cable yourself, or Mr Builder doing that, is not the thing to do.. All you have to do, is to telephone the DNO and ask them the earthing type at that property, THEN you will know what to use as an earth..

You say you "managed to get 0.16 Zs when piggy back neutral & earth" Well, that was not Ze or Zs at all, basically that was the supply impedance you just measured with an added gas pipe that you have no idea is earthed or not. Luckily for you, either it is not, OR the polarity IS correct, because you COULD have found that you just connected the supply across the gas meter and then you would have been sorry..

For one thing, assuming the house has proper bonding, you would have raised the PD between all exposed conductive parts and anything else that was bonded, and true earth [like the floor] to full mains voltage. You could very well have walked into the kitchen to find a dead old couple..

1, Isolate the supply to the house.
2, Disconnect the earth from the cutout.
3, Check the polarity.
4, Verify bonding arrangements.
5, Decide what you are going to use as an earth.
6, Test that the resultant Ze or Ra is suitable to acheive disconnection times.
7, Connect the earth
8, Reconnect the bonding.
Everyone is happy..

Before you just decide to make it TT, how do you know that the rest of the system permits this??

What the heck you testing with??

If the supply impedance is 0.16 there is nothing wrong with the cable.. It is just polarity and earthing you need to sort

john..

 

[Fleeting]

Could just as easily be an SNE supply cable.

 

[Sidewinder]

This thread is very concerning!

 

[John t]

It's done..DNO came...plate connecting earth to neutral was missing in the incoming head

 

[ProDave]

It's done..DNO came...plate connecting earth to neutral was missing in the incoming head

In so doing, they have told you it is TNCS.

So many unanswered questions, like where did the connecting plate go missing in the first place? Why was the original "electrician" so incompetent he did not notice or did not care?

 

[Sharpend]

In so doing, they have told you it is TNCS.

So many unanswered questions, like where did the connecting plate go missing in the first place? Why was the original "electrician" so incompetent he did not notice or did not care?

Or was it an electrician!!!

 

[John t]

In so doing, they have told you it is TNCS.

So many unanswered questions, like where did the connecting plate go missing in the first place? Why was the original "electrician" so incompetent he did not notice or did not care?

Not sure apparently he suffered a break down client produced paper work to confirm payment of £700 to move incoming....DNO said it must have been jointed and screened over when underfloor heating (water) was installed as there would not of been 3 metres of slack to pull through...british gas turned up to install isolation switch and replaced meter

 

[binky]

Not sure apparently he suffered a break down client produced paper work to confirm payment of £700 to move incoming....DNO said it must have been jointed and screened over when underfloor heating (water) was installed as there would not of been 3 metres of slack to pull through...british gas turned up to install isolation switch and replaced meter

And cost to client?

 

[John t]

And cost to client?

Yes....apparently its bee like that since June 22....client said they are going to send a bill back to him...apparently he's living in a B&B in Wales..

 

[John t]

Or was it an electrician!!!

Apparently so...they have used him before..said they picked up a flyer @ Taskers for his company

 

[Fleeting]

Not sure apparently he suffered a break down client produced paper work to confirm payment of £700 to move incoming....DNO said it must have been jointed and screened over when underfloor heating (water) was installed as there would not of been 3 metres of slack to pull through...british gas turned up to install isolation switch and replaced meter

I don't believe the DNO said this do they really believe someone jointed a live service cable it is a ridiculous suggestion.

 

[John t]

Well that's what he said...didn't think there would have been 3 meters of slack from outside..inside was concrete floors

 

[Fleeting]

I assume they sealed the head do you have a picture.