Not mentioning football

[Geoff1946]

"Responsibility",   seems to be unknown to some. 

My wife and I didn't marry until we were able to set up a home. We didn't have kids without considering if we could afford to and still pay the mortgage.  We went without whatever we couldn't afford, did extra part time jobs, etc.    I suspect many of my generation took the same views.

These days there seems to be a common view that everyone is entitled all these things and luxuries on top, all at someone else's expense and regardless of their own efforts or abilities.  The welfare state is taken too much for granted.

Perhaps its just the Victor Meldrew in me showing!

 

[binky]

I would agree the welfare state has been much abused, it was there for those in trouble, but has ended up being a way of life for some - they still cost far less than the legal tax evasion. BUT it has to be said for those at the botton of the pile, job security is more or less non-existent, zero-hour contracts a piss take, and the benefits system doesn't help - take a couple weeks work, your benefits get stopped and by the time they get paid again you could be evicted by your landlord. This catch 22 scenario desn't encourage people into work, yet there are jobs to be had, or there were before immigrants filled a lot of these roles. Lets be honest many immigrants are more motivated, why else would they risk life and death to get here, and they will do well for themselves. 

It's abit of a strange scenario that many people 'expect' a life style they haven't earn't, and if they can raise the money for a mortgage seem to think they should be able to afford all new furniture etc etc as soon as the credit card will allow delivery. My take on this is the demise of religion and the rise of 'mammon'  promoted by advertising and governments encouragement to spend spend spend, although the 2008 crash has changed that to some extent, and perhaps eco-warriors have also encoraged more make do and mend attitudes, and less shopping for ****e we don't need.

 

[apprentice87]

Lets be honest many immigrants are more motivated, why else would they risk life and death to get here, and they will do well for themselves.

Well, yesssss. but the rules are different for them..

Everyone thinks the youngsters here are lazy and stupid, but who made them like that?? Thatcher the courgettewit.

When many of us were young, we got jobs in large industries, where we served a PROPER apprenticeship, AND had a well paid job for life at the end of it, AND a great big lump sum AND an index linked pension when we retired.

Your dad would sign as guarantor on a motorbike for you to go to work and tech on, knowing that you had a proper job, often in the same place as he worked, and you could, later on buy a house and be set up for life..

I had a friend. I was about 14, he was about 45 or more. He lived in a house about 50 yards up from me, that he bought on a mortgage. This would have been well expensive at first, but, thanks to inflation, the FRIEND of the working man in the street, after about ten years, the mortgage was laughably cheap. Then he was made redundant, paid off the mortgage with the lump sum, and promptly got re-employed..

What have the youngsters got now?? No proper apprenticeships, indeed, no proper industry at all. They have zero hour contracts and no secure future at all to look forward to. The house next door to me, was sold last month for £275,000  When i was about 16 it would have been about £30,000, which is why my friend bought his quite easily and his wife stayed home and looked after the three kids..

How the courgette would a normal working person be able to go out and buy the same house now?? The youngsters now have got no future at all..

Now, on to jonny foreigner..

Yes, i agree, they ARE motivated to come here, AND people say they will do low paid jobs the british people will not.

Yes, that is correct, and i will tell you why. They could not give a **** about the wages they get: it is not the wages they are after. It is the "in work" benefits that go with it. Child benefit and working tax credits paid at uk rates for kids that are not even in the uk, all this money sent back home..

i know a lovely person that is from slovakia here working for the NHS, They tell me that the reason they are here, is they just bought a house in Slovakia, and ten years here, they will retire, and it will be paid for, and then they will be off.

Get this.. I said how will they do that, as they will not be able to retire until they are 67??

WRONG, apparently they can clear off and get their uk pension at the slovakian pension age of 62..

Not a level playing field..

john..

 

[binky]

immigrants returning home is an interesting issue, our low wages are enough to make them wealthy at home. We could of course as EU citizens move to their countries and retire in comfort. However, the Tory benefit changes will alter that I think, especially the reduced payouts on kids. I was watching a documentary on a Romanian family who were doing just waht you say, but got a shock when put on sanctions becuase the wife hadn't bothered to learn English so had failed to integrate and therefore could not look for work - you should have heard the moaning about 'how can they take money off us, it's not right!' sounded just like our own doley scroungers 

 

[Sharpend]

Oh boy I learned something this past two weeks that would make your hair curl that puts all that you say into insignificance. Let’s just say it can run into tens sometimes hundreds of thousands per family. That’s why they can retire. 

We are fools to our own cause and it’s all down to EU rules. The sooner we are out the better off we will all be. The figures that were banded about at the referendum time do not even come into what we are actually paying out to these EU people.