One for Steptoe ETC

[a1]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Apache]

Cool it Andy, There is no need of that!

Andy's context was clearly leg pulling!

Are you ok tonight, Admin?

 

[a1]

Andy's context was clearly leg pulling!Are you ok tonight, Admin?

How can you say it was "Clearly" leg pulling? And how can you assume that mine wasn't? :|

 

[Apache]

How can you say it was "Clearly" leg pulling? And how can you assume that mine wasn't? :|

ROTFWL

Either go to bed or have a pint

Guinness

 

[Lurch]

The book referred to also recommends that all cables above suspended ceilings are strung from cateneary wires, with short lengths of cable direct to light fittings, ergo grid is not extraneous. However most lazy? (time poor) electricians throw cable across grid therefore grid is extraneous cos it holds cables. My only concern is howmany bonds you need to get a good bond to entire grid. 1 in total, 1 at each light point, 1 at each line?? On the one occasion I've been involved with a new grid install, I used trunking / conduit to provide extra insulation between grid and cable, and used flex cos the insulation is thicker than FTE just in case it snagged a sharp edge.

Yet again a solution to a problem that shouldn;t exist in the first place. Cables shouldn;t be thrown across suspended ceilings, and if they are earthing the grid isn;t fixing the problem.

 

[steptoe]

cables shouldnt be overloaded, so protecting a 1.5T&E with a 6a MCB isnt fixing the problem either.

 

[Lurch]

cables shouldnt be overloaded, so protecting a 1.5T&E with a 6a MCB isnt fixing the problem either.

You're going to have to explain this one.

 

[Andy™]

cables shouldnt be overloaded, so protecting a 1.5T&E with a 6a MCB isnt fixing the problem either.

er...

what?

 

[steptoe]

Yet again a solution to a problem that shouldn;t exist in the first place. Cables shouldn;t be thrown across suspended ceilings, and if they are earthing the grid isn;t fixing the problem.

cables shouldnt be overloaded, so protecting a 1.5T&E with a 6a MCB isnt fixing the problem either.

just because a problem SHOULDNT exist, doesnt mean you dont have to design for it.

NO short circuit is ever intended to exist, its all about minimising the risk should it occur.

 

[Lurch]

just because a problem SHOULDNT exist, doesnt mean you dont have to design for it.NO short circuit is ever intended to exist, its all about minimising the risk should it occur.

Point missed completely. I never said there should be no risk on anything at any point.

Cables shouldn't be on the ceiling in the first place, earthing the ceiling because of this isn't fixing the error.

The overload protection should be on the cable in the first place, so erm, that's it really, nothing to fix here.

 

[steptoe]

Point missed completely. I never said there should be no risk on anything at any point. Cables shouldn't be on the ceiling in the first place, earthing the ceiling because of this isn't fixing the error.

The overload protection should be on the cable in the first place, so erm, that's it really, nothing to fix here.

should be done in the first place,

regarding competency,

wondering why pots and kettles come to mind here.

 

[Lurch]

should be done in the first place,

Why? I thought post #1 confirmed it didn't need doing in the first place?

 

[steptoe]

dont think it did,

you need to re-read post one,

and then you need to decide if the company that produces said publication makes the rules or NOT,

 

[Lurch]

dont think it did,you need to re-read post one,

and then you need to decide if the company that produces said publication makes the rules or NOT,

Fair enough, I was in agreement with that post anyway before it was posted. Under what rules\regs\circumstances would you say the ceiling should be bonded?

 

[steptoe]

Fair enough, I was in agreement with that post anyway before it was posted. Under what rules\regs\circumstances would you say the ceiling should be bonded?

EAWR reg 16

the LAW

 

[green-hornet]

Fair enough, I was in agreement with that post anyway before it was posted. Under what rules\regs\circumstances would you say the ceiling should be bonded?

When you as the installer decide there is sufficient reason to suspect that under fault conditions the grid could become live.

All grid lighting is earthed through the cpc of the various circuits, there are even little earthing tags on some to connect to the grid.

There is a major key phrase given in the first post, which all posters since have chosen to ignore, and that is "under normal conditions".

What any installer would have to assess is any conditions that are not normal, or out of their control.

A grid can become live, thats a fact, under normal use it should not, as all fittings are mettalic and connected to the cpc of the relative circuits.

What I dont like about this thread is that a debate has been conducted where some views are just personal choice and not based on any facts that would help anyone decide when and if to bond a grid.

Personally I would never run cables on suspended ceilings, personally I would not bond the grid, unless I found a possible reason to do so.

If anyone is thinking what reason could I have.

Lets take the metal that forms the building, its foundations going to earth, and as such are bonded at the met.

The suspended ceiling is then hung from this metal structure, with wire, to supplement the wire and to prove continuity of earth I would bond the grid, by local circuit, or back to met.

 

[Lurch]

EAWR reg 16the LAW

I don't follow? Not sure how this applies. If the grid is just sitting there, in a room, minding it's own business you'd bond it?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

EAWR reg 29

(Defence)

the LAW..................

just felt like throwing this in..

may as well compare BOTH sides of the coin!

Reasonable steps...

following BS761 maybe?

as per bullet point 7 page 2

Memorandum of Guidance on the EAWR 1989!

 

[steptoe]

When you as the installer decide there is sufficient reason to suspect that under fault conditions the grid could become live.All grid lighting is earthed through the cpc of the various circuits, there are even little earthing tags on some to connect to the grid.

There is a major key phrase given in the first post, which all posters since have chosen to ignore, and that is "under normal conditions".

What any installer would have to assess is any conditions that are not normal, or out of their control.

A grid can become live, thats a fact, under normal use it should not, as all fittings are mettalic and connected to the cpc of the relative circuits.

What I dont like about this thread is that a debate has been conducted where some views are just personal choice and not based on any facts that would help anyone decide when and if to bond a grid.

Personally I would never run cables on suspended ceilings, personally I would not bond the grid, unless I found a possible reason to do so.

If anyone is thinking what reason could I have.

Lets take the metal that forms the building, its foundations going to earth, and as such are bonded at the met.

The suspended ceiling is then hung from this metal structure, with wire, to supplement the wire and to prove continuity of earth I would bond the grid, by local circuit, or back to met.

excellent post,

Applaud Smiley

someday I may come up with something so succint.

I don't follow? Not sure how this applies. If the grid is just sitting there, in a room, minding it's own business you'd bond it?

then obviously you are either immune/or dont comply

with REG 16 .

and, BTW, that IMHO is the one and only reg that you must work to, I think if you can comply with that then you have a good fighting chance in any court.

SL has also come up with your defence for non compliance with reg16, you can use reg 29.!

IIRC Im sure reg 16 states that you can do this...... Pray