Outside spotlight Instalation

[DIY GUY]

Hello I’m thinking of fitting 3 or 4 spot lights to the white wooden part above my front door. From that position about 1meter away I have a small toilet light switch that switches my small toilet and also downstairs hall light. And I have a double socket about 1.5meters away. What’s the best option to take a feed from to get to the spot lights? Is there an option to have them on a timer  for when to come on and go off? Or would I need to manually switch them on and off from a separate switch that I take a feed from? My plan is to basically keep them constantly on from dusk till dawn for security, what would be the best type of spotlight to use so it didn’t use up to much electricity? Thanks Paul

 

[Doc Hudson]

I have to ask, is it a small toilet, or just a normal toilet in a small room? (I am thinking could be like those kid's urinals at service stations mounted lower down for short legs.),  probably not I guess?

Anyway, a few observations. the existing light switch may not have any neutral in it that you could extend from. If so you can easily use a fused spur from your socket as a supply.  Three or four lights sounds like major overkill to me from that photograph. Do you have any local neighbours who you could be blinding with potential light pollution form too many incorrectly positioned lights?  It is possible to have them switched however you want, e.g.

1/ A basic switch to manually turn  on/off

2/ A 24 hour, or 7 day timer to automatically switch on/off at certain times.

3/ A dusk-dawn switch that will automatically switch on/off during hours of darkness.

4/ A PIR movement sensor that will automatically switch on/off for pre-set duration after detecting movement.

5/ ANY combination of the above using appropriate switch/timer/sensor/PIR wired in the correct manner to get the operating results that you want.

It may also be worth considering a low level light permanently on during darkness, with also a brighter light switched on manually or automatically if movement detected. e.g. a nice decorative lantern with a 6w or 8w LED lamp giving off light equivalent to a 60w or 100w GLS lamp controlled by a Dusk/Dawn sensor.  Then a higher power mini floodlight, say LED equivalent to the 200w-300w  halogen lamps, triggered by any movement.

Doc H. 

 

[DIY GUY]

Hi, yes my existing light switch has a neutral in it. Maybe 4 lights does seem overkill lol, could maybe go for 2. Yeah I’m looking for the lights to be switched on at dusk and off at dawn. I was going to put a pir light outside but thought I wouldn’t have to if installing down lights. Also have security light on garage. Would I tap into my hall switch and run 1.5 twin earth from it to dusk-dawn switch then from there 1.5 twin earth to the soffit? Cheers

 

[Doc Hudson]

1.5mm T&E will not be needed just to supply a light or two. 1.0mm will be more than enough. You could do T&E from supply (switch) to sensor then to light, but you would have no means to wire a manual override if you wanted to double check that the lamp works during daylight hours. So you could do 3core+E from supply (switch) to Dusk dawn sensor. Then T&E to light fitting either from switch or sensor whichever is most convenient,  So if required you could also wire a manual override switch to turn the lamp on in times before it gets dark enough to trigger dusk/dawn sensor.

Typical photocell dusk/dawn switches.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p62528

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ced-standalone-photocell/980cg#_=p

 

[DIY GUY]

So should I run 3core+E 1m from existing switch to sensor, then T&E 1m from sensor to new switch then T&E 1m from new switch to lights, would that work? And the new switch, would that just be a 1gang 1way switch out of toolstation etc? Would that mean the new switch would always be of but if I wanted to check lights out with dusk till dawn setting that they are all working I would put the switch to on position? Cheers again 

 

[Doc Hudson]

If the existing switch is a single gang wall switch, just convert it to a double gang wall switch. take a 3core &E from the switch position to the sensor, then a T&E on from the sensor to the light fitting.

All neutrals connected through.

All earths connected through.

Permanent live supply from switch connected to perm live input at sensor.

Switched live from switch connected to switched output of sensor, then also onward to the live input at light.

So if switch OFF and sensor not operated light will be OFF.

and if switch OFF and sensor operated light will be ON.

and if switch ON and sensor not operated light will be ON.

and if switch ON  and sensor operated light will be ON.

Doc H.

 

[DIY GUY]

The switch I have atm is 2 gang and controls lights, could I change that to 3 gang 3way? 

Would there be enough room? 

If I don’t want the lights to come on before dusk is there any really need for a seperate switch for it? 

 

[DIY GUY]

Do these seem fit for the job energy wise?

 

[DIY GUY]

Along with this dusk till dawn sensor?

 

[DIY GUY]

https://www.lighting-direct.co.uk/integral-evofire-fire-rated-fixed-downlight-white-pack-of-4.html

https://www.directelectrical.co.uk/products/Switches+%26+Sockets/Weatherproof/Nexus+Weatherproof+Dusk-till-Dawn+Light+Sensor+Timer+Switch+IP55/1270165879?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8f_eBRDcARIsAEKwRGeB90n7ExKHaUt9G-mQMkDFDs_p3GBjre-_wkuNPqiISPOIJxWl0qkaAm3aEALw_wcB

Could anyone help please 

 

[binky]

probably easier to lift boards in room above front door and take supply from cables there. 

 

[Sharpend]

Wouldn’t it be easier to fit an additional switch on the landing upstairs and take power from the upstairs light circuit as the cables will be in the loft (next too soffit) already and save the need for upheaval downstairs or exposed cabling externally? 

 

[DIY GUY]

I know the route I’m going to take the cable Binky, and it’s a bit easier than lifting floor boards etc. The route of the cable isn’t really the problem it’s just what’s the best thing I should do and the correct lights to buy etc 

 

[Sharpend]

A good quality much tried and tested dawn to dusk sensor with led lights is probably the easiest and cheapest way to achieve what it want. 

 

[DIY GUY]

Hi sharpend where I’m putting the lights will be above the front door soffit and not on the roof soffit. If I don’t need a switch for them as I’ll be running them on dusk till dawn sensor, should I just run twin&earth 1mm cable from near by switch to the sensor then twin&earth 1mm then onto the spot lights? 

 

[Sharpend]

Personally if you’re going from a switch then just make it a double or triple switch to give you the extra options then as suggested a three core cable from switch to sensor then onto lights. 

 

[DIY GUY]

What would you guys do, switch or no switch? 

 

[Sharpend]

Paul, this is not a case of what would we do, it’s about what you want and whether you’d do it? 

 

[Doc Hudson]

I thought you were referring to wall mounted spot lamps, not recessed downlights in the soffit. If you are referring to the small porch area around the front door I can't see the point of having four lamps in such a small area, two would be more than enough in my opinion. And as I said earlier a manual override switch makes verifying replacement lamps are working easy in the daylight. And provides functional lights even if the sensor fails.

Doc H. 

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Hi, yes my existing light switch has a neutral in it.





 

How do you know it's a Neutral?