Plugs and sockets - Industry

[ElectricalG]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, hope that I can help some people in the future!

For now, I have a question regarding the use of plugs and sockets in extra low voltage and how safe it is, I have been doing some research and it's clear to me that for something that is considered as a fixed electrical installation, the connection should be a permanent one, but it becomes a little bit more tricky for me when it comes to a temporary installation in the industry.

My question is, can measuring devices installed in pipelines be considered somehow as a temporary installation since it shouldn't require any major modification or disruption to take the measuring device out of service with a din a plug? is this a safe practice?

Since electrical safety is a top priority, I'm trying to understand all the potential consequences of this scenario and if it is feasible or even permitted, I'm trying not to focus just on the equipment because there will be multiple measuring devices (all 24 V DC) in the same area.

BR,

ElectricalG

 

[Evans Electric]

The Regs once stated  that there is no such thing as a temporary installation,  possibly the 15th  ed .     However you are working with 24V .   What are these pipes ?  Hot /cold/gas /oil/beer  ?     Can you hang the cable to the pipe ?        Finishing at a din plug sounds OK to me .     Bit more info. reqd. 

 

[NozSpark]

I can't figure out what benefit you'd achieve by calling it a temporary installation...

However, just because you connect these sensors/probes by a plug/socket affair does not make their installation temporary.... a Temporary installation should be fully removable,, much like an extension lead... this wouldn't be IMHO

 

[ElectricalG]

Thanks @Evans Electric and @NozSpark for your replies!
 

The Regs once stated  that there is no such thing as a temporary installation,  possibly the 15th  ed .     However you are working with 24V .   What are these pipes ?  Hot /cold/gas /oil/beer  ?     Can you hang the cable to the pipe ?        Finishing at a din plug sounds OK to me .     Bit more info. reqd. 

A bit more info,

The fluid flowing through most of the pipes will be hot hydrocarbons and some are just water. It might be tricky to hang the cables to the pipe since it will be insulated but, will that be safe to do?

I can't figure out what benefit you'd achieve by calling it a temporary installation...

However, just because you connect these sensors/probes by a plug/socket affair does not make their installation temporary.... a Temporary installation should be fully removable,, much like an extension lead... this wouldn't be IMHO

Mainly to be able to have the measuring equipment on plugs if it is safe to do so.

 

[Geoff1946]

Personally I can't see an electrical safety issue UNLESS its a hazardous atmosphere zone.

From a practical point of view you need to consider how clean or otherwise the area is.  DIN plugs left open in the sort of conditions found in many industrial environments aren't going to fare well.

 

[ElectricalG]

Hi @Geoff1946

Personally I can't see an electrical safety issue UNLESS its a hazardous atmosphere zone.

From a practical point of view you need to consider how clean or otherwise the area is.  DIN plugs left open in the sort of conditions found in many industrial environments aren't going to fare well.

Those are some of my concerns, there are parts of the plant that are classified as hazardous area and others as non hazardous, also, the equipment is going to be installed outdoors, so it will be exposed to the weather.

 

[UNG]

Given that DIN plugs are mentioned how many poles are needed in these connectors could IEC60309 24v plugs and sockets be used

 

[ElectricalG]

Hi @UNG,

Given that DIN plugs are mentioned how many poles are needed in these connectors could IEC60309 24v plugs and sockets be used

Those are the "Commando" plugs, right? I have used them but for low voltage, not extra low voltage, would it be feasible?

The number of pins will be anywhere between 2 to 6 pins.

 

[Geoff1946]

Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to DIN plugs. DIN translates as  something like "German Standards Institute" and probably covers a whole range of stuff;

I was thinking of the sort of thing used on audio gear.

I knew Commando type plugs by some IEC reference, not DIN.

You say some of your areas ARE hazardous. There are strict rules for such areas which are way beyond my knowledge, but I very much doubt if Commandos would be permitted.

 

[roys]

As soon as you mention hydrocarbons then it is a whole different ball game. The only way you can any form of electrical equipment is if If is certified suitable for that area, or if it is truly a very temporary arrangement then a specific permit has to be issued which will have certain conditions on it, for a start most likely stating constant gas monitoring and constantly manned so that said equipment can be quickly removed if gas is detected.

We use to issue such permits for such cases as camera pics required from site or portable specialist test equip required on site.

Even if we wanted to use our multimeter on site we would require one of these more stringent permits.

I am holding back using certain terminology as your site may use different terminology.

Speak to your site electrical engineer.

When you mention DIN plugs I tend to think of the 5 pin plugs that were used extensively in the audio industry.

 

[ElectricalG]

Perhaps I misunderstood your reference to DIN plugs. DIN translates as  something like "German Standards Institute" and probably covers a whole range of stuff;

I was thinking of the sort of thing used on audio gear.

I knew Commando type plugs by some IEC reference, not DIN.

You say some of your areas ARE hazardous. There are strict rules for such areas which are way beyond my knowledge, but I very much doubt if Commandos would be permitted.

I was replying to UNG, he was making reference to IEC60309, those are the Commando type plugs.

You are right on that, DIN is for the german standard, DIN plugs are the small ones used as connectors, 3 to 8 pins.

They are certainly not permitted, but I'm not intending to use those ones, I'm focusing on extra low voltage plugs for measuring devices.

As soon as you mention hydrocarbons then it is a whole different ball game. The only way you can any form of electrical equipment is if If is certified suitable for that area, or if it is truly a very temporary arrangement then a specific permit has to be issued which will have certain conditions on it, for a start most likely stating constant gas monitoring and constantly manned so that said equipment can be quickly removed if gas is detected.

We use to issue such permits for such cases as camera pics required from site or portable specialist test equip required on site.

Even if we wanted to use our multimeter on site we would require one of these more stringent permits.

I am holding back using certain terminology as your site may use different terminology.

Speak to your site electrical engineer.

When you mention DIN plugs I tend to think of the 5 pin plugs that were used extensively in the audio industry.

Yes, some areas of the plant are non hazardous area so no special certification is needed, even if it is hydrocarbons flowing through the pipes.

Today, some of those DIN plugs can be found on measuring devices, but I don't think they are rated for hazardous areas, they will have to be special connectors.

 

[Jono Pashley]

Probably want to be looking more to 60204/60079 for guidance in this situation rather than BS7671, there are plenty of 24V connectors that are Ex rated not cheap tho(nothing Ex is) 

 

[roys]

Probably want to be looking more to 60204/60079 for guidance in this situation rather than BS7671, there are plenty of 24V connectors that are Ex rated not cheap tho(nothing Ex is) 

Thing is, and I know you know this but for the benefit of others that may stumble on the thread, it is not just the plugs and sockets that have to be Ex rated it is all the rest of the kit attached that may be in the Ex area.