Poor Electrics By Registered Installers

[dave (retired)]

I have seen so much poor and dangerous work by registered installers lately, (I am retired sparks) it is as if they are using part P to hide behind. I have seen a consumer unit moved and replaced, the ring main was not continuous so had not been tested, the RCD was disconnected because of a neutral fault on lighting tripping it. I have just seen a new consumer unit fitted in a sports pavilion with no discrimination (just one RCD mainswitch) on this same job he has reconnected a badly damaged PWA cable (outer sheath split, armour spread, inner sheath split, exposing insulated conductors) which he knew about. Can someone please confirm that sticking a bit of tape on it, not even covering the split, does not comply with regs, customer thinks sun shines out of his backside and will not believe me without some backup from other professionals. When that cable was first installed by another sparks the armour was not earthed or the metal JB on the end of it. I did ask ELECSA and NICEIC, about repair, both refused to comment, shows how concerned they are about safety. He has also chased in a cable in kitchen in non safe area, which second sparks extended knowing it did not comply, he only came back and fitted RCD when I pointed out to customer earthing was not up to standard.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Much as you may dislike the standard of work done by A.N.Other person.....

If you did not order the work, and/or pay for the work...

you are in no way involved with the contract and have no grounds for dispute...

Just as I cannot complain about the standard of the work done by my neighbours mechanic on his car!

As such no matter how much NIC ELECSA NAPITT etc..

agree or disagree with your opinion, it is only the person who is directly involved with the work who has grounds to raise any issues of complaint against the "electrician" to a contractors scheme...

Thinking they can just jump in and start taking action following a 3rd party complaint without solid evidence is a bit naive as to how the law works... 

BS7671 is still just guidance, non statutory...

DIY work is still permissable...

A sports pavilion is unlikely to have any relevance to Part-P.. (Building regulations regarding electrical installation work in domestic dwellings)..

It sound from what you say that the person(s) who have paid for the work do not agree with your opinion?

If you do have indisputable evidence of dangerous work take a more relevant written course of action..

Telephone calls don't carry much weight in a court of law..  

Remember DANGEROUS is not the same as just a bit poor or shoddy workmanship. 

What is you connection or involvement in these examples?

:coffee

p.s.

welcome to the forum.

 

[Marvo]

..........customer thinks sun shines out of his backside and will not believe me without some backup from other professionals.

I think this is a big problem in the UK, the average customer is clueless about the electrical industry and its qualifications. They seem to have no idea of the difference between PartP certification and a JIB gold card. They assume that anyone with a scheme membership sticker on the van is competent to do anything electrical whereas this clearly isn't the case. Maybe someone needs to start educating them.

 

[Evans Electric]

Welcome to the Forum Dave (Retired)  ,  ( More old pharts are needed)  also isn't it so often the case that the guy doing the crap work has the preverbial 400 watt light emitting from his nether regions and can do no wrong in the eyes of the customer .

Probably 'cos he works cheap.

 

[batty]

Very true Deke when I have pointed out dangerous jobs And I consider not total RCD protection on TT systems dangerous the customers generally don't seem to mind as they probably had a cheap job. Well that is what I put it down too.

 

[dave (retired)]

Thanks all for your replies, my involvement was pointing out to the pavilion comitee that the electrics were bad and needed updating,(poor earth). It was not done cheap, I was shown the quotes for my comments, and he charged £1000 labour for one person for one days work. My concern is that if someone got hurt (and old people and children use pavilion) and I had not brought to their notice my concerns, I would feel partly responsible. Dave (retired)

 

[ProDave]

Thanks all for your replies, my involvement was pointing out to the pavilion comitee that the electrics were bad and needed updating,(poor earth). It was not done cheap, I was shown the quotes for my comments, and he charged £1000 labour for one person for one days work. My concern is that if someone got hurt (and old people and children use pavilion) and I had not brought to their notice my concerns, I would feel partly responsible. Dave (retired)

Flippin eck

Can you tell me where that is please.

£1000 for a days work. I wouldn't need too many of those before I could become Dave (retired #2)

 

[NozSpark]

What did they do for the £1000 ?

Supply and fit £950 worth of equipment?

 

[dave (retired)]

I have not been able to see all of the finished job but quote was replace main consumer unit, (I guess 8 way), replace 2 small consumer units, supply cable to consumer units 'upgraded' whatever that means and replace 4 sockets, his quote was £2200. (inc VAT) I think the materials, useing RCBOs, would cost about £800. I know the 4 way he fitted only had RCD mainswitch and 4 MCBs, it should have been 4 DP RCBOs as according to quote there was going to be another RCD oupstream and even SP RCBOs would not give complete discrimination on a neutral fault. Thanks all for your interest, Dave.

 

[ProDave]

I have not been able to see all of the finished job but quote was replace main consumer unit, (I guess 8 way), replace 2 small consumer units, supply cable to consumer units 'upgraded' whatever that means and replace 4 sockets, his quote was £2200. (inc VAT) I think the materials, useing RCBOs, would cost about £800. I know the 4 way he fitted only had RCD mainswitch and 4 MCBs, it should have been 4 DP RCBOs as according to quote there was going to be another RCD oupstream and even SP RCBOs would not give complete discrimination on a neutral fault. Thanks all for your interest, Dave.

Can I get on the tender list for that work please.

The CU's would have cost £200 max, probably less.

So £2K for labour and sundries.

I'd like a slice of that pie please.

It would even cover my travel costs darn sarf and BC control notification for part pee

 

[professional]

Much as you may dislike the standard of work done by A.N.Other person.....

If you did not order the work, and/or pay for the work...

you are in no way involved with the contract and have no grounds for dispute...

Just as I cannot complain about the standard of the work done by my neighbours mechanic on his car!

As such no matter how much NIC ELECSA NAPITT etc..

agree or disagree with your opinion, it is only the person who is directly involved with the work who has grounds to raise any issues of complaint against the "electrician" to a contractors scheme...

Thinking they can just jump in and start taking action following a 3rd party complaint without solid evidence is a bit naive as to how the law works... 

BS7671 is still just guidance, non statutory...

DIY work is still permissable...

A sports pavilion is unlikely to have any relevance to Part-P.. (Building regulations regarding electrical installation work in domestic dwellings)..

It sound from what you say that the person(s) who have paid for the work do not agree with your opinion?

If you do have indisputable evidence of dangerous work take a more relevant written course of action..

Telephone calls don't carry much weight in a court of law..  

Remember DANGEROUS is not the same as just a bit poor or shoddy workmanship. 

What is you connection or involvement in these examples?

:coffee

p.s.

welcome to the forum.

Absolute rubbish - any competent person can question the safety or standard of electrical work carried out as long as they have knowledge and experience in the relevant sector.

I can (and have) complained about **** work by members of all Schemes.

The fact that the Schemes already know that the majority of their members are untrained "knuckle draggers" with less ability and knowledge than the average family pet does not bother them in the least - as they suffer NO financial penalty for registering total incompetents.