Price to EICR a Church ?

[Evans Electric]

Would anyone care to give me a comparison price ...I don't want to overcharge  neither do I want to undercharge  .  They''ve been using someone but are kicking them into touch .  

Yes I know we all have different needs etc   and different locations  , this is Brum  . And its two semi retired old pharts. 

Thing is we are not too bothered these days about earning a fortune  in our position we just like a steady number thats not too physical .

I've allowed for a 4 m  tower to get to the higher lights .

I reckon on a week for two of us .  Five fairly large boards in there .  

I'll post my quote later .  

 

[ProDave]

Never done one, but my impression is often not a lot of wiring, some lights, a few sockets and some heaters is about all in the ones up here.  And usually it's all VERY old.

 

[phil d]

Churches as far as I know, do, or at least did, have some weird regs of their own, a bit like theatres have some specific regs too, I remember reading about them a number of years back. I did a local church about 5 years ago, you generally find some oddball stuff that has been done usually because it's been done by one of the helpful parishioners who 'knows all about electrics'.

The one I did had been inspected a couple of years before we did it and it had been given a clean bill of health, I don't know how because there were some glaringly obvious issues, earth clamps missing from pipes, blanks missing from dis boards, no RCD protection on sockets, boards not labelled up, I've worked on about 3 or 4 over the years some are ok, most tend to plead poverty when it comes round to getting work done and go for the cheapest quote, I remember one and somebody had decided the gas needed bonding. The meter was a bit bigger than a domestic one and lived in a tiny brick hut thing attached to the side wall at the front of the church. The electricity setup was in a cellar at the rear of the church, instead of running the cable under the floor, some idiot had clipped about 75 mtrs of 25mm G/Y all along the inside wall of the church, then, broke a small hole in a leaded glass window to allow the cable to exit, it was then nailed to a sandstone pillar and down the wall!

 

[kerching]

Not done one for years.....but

when I used to,do,them ALL cable had to be Pyro

no bare Pyro on Oak woodwork

no through drilling of any timber or stonework

there was an additional book called The Lighting and Wiring of Churches published by Church House Publications

but that was a few years ago so it may all have changed now

 

[phil d]

Not done one for years.....but

when I used to,do,them ALL cable had to be Pyro

no bare Pyro on Oak woodwork

no through drilling of any timber or stonework

there was an additional book called The Lighting and Wiring of Churches published by Church House Publications

but that was a few years ago so it may all have changed now

That was it, the pyro, also, oddly enough I think it had to be bare pyro on the stonework to make it less visible, as regards drilling the stuff you need very long bits usually, we got around the not drilling stone bit by always going through on a mortar bed, thanks for jogging my memory. just remembered, I think there was something about all fixings on timber to be made with brass screws, I think that was to do with Oak being highly acidic.

 

[Sharpend]

Not done one for years.....but

when I used to,do,them ALL cable had to be Pyro

no bare Pyro on Oak woodwork

no through drilling of any timber or stonework

there was an additional book called The Lighting and Wiring of Churches published by Church House Publications

but that was a few years ago so it may all have changed now

I don't think you should be posting this information on an open public forum, before we know it we'll have The Lighting and Wiring of Domestic Abodes published by The LFB

 

[binky]

Never done one, but my impression is often not a lot of wiring, some lights, a few sockets and some heaters is about all in the ones up here.  And usually it's all VERY old.

depends what they have in the building, quite often a crypt, large boiler plant room, various kitchens, meeting rooms and coffee areas,  organs, not much in the main church. You can also guarantee one of the parishioners thinks they know how to do electrics...

 

[phil d]

I don't think you should be posting this information on an open public forum, before we know it we'll have The Lighting and Wiring of Domestic Abodes published by The LFB

Don't get me started on the LFB, there was some bint on the news this morning, she was an ADC, or ADO, or something high up in the LFB, she was having a bit of a rant about how there were more firefighters called 'Chris' in the fire service than there were women in high ranking roles. The thing about all these Chris's, is they are probably in roles they are qualified to do, listening to her rant on I got an overwhelming feeling that we are once more going to see people given roles that they are not qualified for, but hold that position simply because they are, Black, Female, Gay, or whatever the current trend dictates.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The phrase a 'Church' can be as open as saying a 'Dwelling'....

I have done a some jobs several years ago at a couple of our local churches / church halls...

Plus over the past few years had attended various combinations of weddings & funerals of friends and/or family..

Seen quite a pick & mix of church buildings...

From the traditional stained glass steeple jobbie..

To slightly more modern church halls..

Then to converted industrial units with a pulpit & alter stuck at the front...

Some modern Churches have all sorts of electrical gizzmoes for stage and lighting, PA's, mixer desks...

Screen projectors linked to a bank of PC's to put all the words to the Hymns/Songs instead of having books...

(As they basically have a 5 piece (or bigger) band playing as the traditional organist only comes out for the odd special event..)

Plus the community hall & rooms used for the nursery school, (which also comes under Ofsted inspections)..

and/or the Guides/Scouts group who meet there each week bringing various combinations of mains powered equipment...

So the electrics have had quite extensive additions from the typical requirements of 25-30+ years ago..

At the end of the day its not the building that defines the cost..

its the time taken...

If you reckon its a weeks work....

then its 1 weeks labour surely??

Guinness  

 

[Apache]

A week for 2 of you plus hire of a tower - £2250

At the moment I'm winning as everyone else has ignored your question and put a price up!

 

[binky]

I would concurr @Apache, but reckon anyhing over about £750 will see the work go elsewhere, unless it really is a big set of electrics, or the church management uderstand what it is to test proeprly and not do a 'drive by' cert.

 

[kerching]

Yep, brass screws!

oak casing and capping

lead plugs instead of plastic ( it was an old book!)

also if you do the test......if the Organ is a traditional lead pipe affair DO NOT GO IN THE ORGAN LOFT!    Keep,away from anything associated with it, standing on a lead pipe can result in a lot of financial and verbal pain, a LOT

ALSO beware of the Vicars handshake

 

[Sidewinder]

Deke,

It's just BS7671.

Depending on he denomination the Church "governing body" may have additional requirements.

They are easy to get hold of, I have most of them.

I've done a few Churches even at my prices because, they have realised the value in getting it right.

Also, after I did one, and they had an insurance/governing body inspection, they were told that it was the first building that the inspector had seen that the electrical systems had documentation that seemed to be correct.

They then felt justified in what they had spent.

Talk to them, explain that you'll do it correctly, and even perhaps offer to throw in the stupid fixes, blanks, labels, reverse polarity, loose connections (undamaged by heat) in as "freebies" as you do the I&T.

Remember also it's I&T not initial verification.

You are legitimately allowed to sample, and if the quote doesn't cover 100% but 100% is needed on a circuit FI it.

Many these days are not as fussy with MI cable etc. I know a couple that are done in pvc/pvc.

Just be realistic, 5 boards is man hours including sub mains.

How many circuits.

Can you sample.

Do you, need, to strip the high level lighting.

Remember GN3 says:

The purpose of periodic inspection and testing is to provide an engineering view on whether or not the installation is in a satisfactory condition where it can continue to be used safely.
A detailed visual examination of the installation is required, together with appropriate tests. The tests are mainly to confirm that the disconnection times stated in Chapter 41 are met.

...

There is no specific requirement to test the installation on every inspection. Where testing requires dismantling, the inspector should consider whether the risks associated with dismantling and reassembling are justified. Dismantling, and particularly disconnection of cables or components, introduces a risk of unsatisfactory reassembly.

...
The requirement of BS 7671 for periodic inspection and testing is for a detailed inspection comprising an examination of the installation without dismantling, or with partial dismantling as required, together with the tests of Chapter 64 considered appropriate by the person carrying out the inspection and testing. The scope of the periodic inspection and testing must be decided by a suitably skilled person, competent in such inspection and testing work, taking into account the information and guidance contained in this section.

(651.2)

I would be charging a man hour per circuit, (submain & board 1 hour), plus some time to do the certification, and probably not dismantling the high level lighting, I would be R2'ing it with a pole if it's class 1, if it's class 2, then possibly not touching it.

This would depend on the previous records, and what they look like, if, they exist.

If the precious records are rubbish, then I would be pushing for a 100% intrusive I&T of every point, and mapping out cable runs etc.

Remember, you are the duty holder when you are there.

Also, whilst this is a Church, you need to remember that EAWR still applies to your work, and, think about it, whilst a place of worship, it is also a workplace for the minister, he/she almost certainly gets paid to be there, in some form.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks Sidey for that most concise reply  and useful comments .    I shall take that on board.   There is quite a lot there ,  smallish kitchen, a child care area or creche  , yes an organ  , office,   some small meeting rooms ....no different really to anywhere else ,  lights , plugs , heating  (fan & infra red ) 

Its a modern Anglican church  ,  the estate was built in the '70s  and ,  not sure why..  ....     it has been rewired  totally  in T&E   and SWA sub mains  C/w modern boards .  However the contractor was , they are  not their favourite people  apparently , due to a spate of loose connections  .  

However we shall see what we shall see ,    the place will be out of use for a week   in a couple of months , which is when we do it . If successful .   

 

[Apache]

Deke, HOW MUCH?

 

[OnOff]

Deke, HOW MUCH?

That would be an ecumenical question!

(From Father Ted)

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Deke, HOW MUCH?

:shakehead   Oh dear....

The Vet-Cow Thing-A-Ma-Jig has been absent for ages....

Then he comes back pilling the pressure on our forum-tech-support Guru..

Sir Dekington of Deke towers..

Wanting to know HOW MUCH??????

Have you forgotten it normal takes Mr Eevannns Electriqual over a week to find his pencil, notepad and abacus to do his calcs...

Give him till around next Wednesday..

Probably near to 16:45 before he will have any numbers ready...

Guinness

:slap

 

[binky]

That would be an ecumenical question!

(From Father Ted)

but the money isn't resting in his account yet...

 

[OnOff]

but the money isn't resting in his account yet...

I don't believe it!

 

[phil d]

Had an interesting one yesterday, I was talking to the husband of one of the women who works with my wife, he's never spoken to me until recently when he found out I was a spark, he organises maintenance for several churches in our area, we got on about electrical inspections and he was telling me that the firm who used to do them on the churches also got the remedials too. He likes to know about the things he's working with, so decided to have a read up on the codes, it turned out that this particular firm were giving incorrect codes to make issues seem more serious than they were and fleecing them on the remedials!

He came up with a new idea, they could still do the EICR's, but he wanted 3 firms to quote for the remedials, they decided they didn't want to do any more work for the churches, he's still not worked out whether it's because they were coding C3's as C2's, and C2's as C1's(one of the competitors helpfully pointed this out) which he already knew, and they found out he knew, or whether it was because, by him insisting on 3 quotes for the remedials they were not making as much money. I suppose, this proves the old saying from the bible, 'be sure your sins will find you out', if ever anything horrible ever happens to them I wonder if it will be attributed to that other great biblical saying? 'vengeance is mine sayeth the lord' , lol