Professional Electrician Nov 16 edition

[Murdoch]

Who else has flicked through PE this month?

Specifically page 12 "caught on camera" - the picture of the CU with multiple makes of MCB?

"Inspector says: How many different manufacturers MCB's can you get in a consumer unit?  510.3

I've just read 510.3 in the BYB and I'm not convinced that the inspector is being helpful in the least!

510.3 says "Every item of equipment shall be selected and erected so as to allow compliance with the regulations stated in this chapter and the relevant regulations in other parts of BS7671 and shall take account of manufacturers instructions"

Being a bit of a cynic, I don't believe BS7671 AMD 3 forbids fitting different MCB's and I can't recall any manufacturer stating that other makes must not be fitted in their CU's

Discuss!

 

[Blue Duck]

421.1.201

Within domestic  premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439 3*

There is also the manufacturers instructions which state warranty void if other makes of breaker are used or something to that effect.

I disagree with not being able to mix n match, I think it's silly....imagine if you're up in prodave land 200miles from the nearist CEF to get a crabtree breaker when the wylex in the van (Subaru) would fit perfectly!

Less golf more reality please!

Edit:

*

Constructional requirements: Subclause 8.5

Design Verification: Subclause 10.6
The general objective of this Subclause is to ensure safety in installation and operation of the 
installed devices. Fixed and removable parts are covered. The main difference is the possibility 
to safely connect or remove removable parts when the circuit is live (although not necessarily 
under load). The standard regards a withdrawable part as a type of removable part. The 
selection of devices and components must consider their suitability for the application.
Devices and components must be installed in accordance with the device manufacturers’ 
instructions and with due regard to the accessibility necessary to ensure proper and safe

From the gambica guide to BS61439-3

 

[ProDave]

I work on the basis that if it FITS (which in the real world means the busbar height is correct) then I will fit it.

I have seen many example where the "wrong" make of mcb fits better than the "correct" one, simply because the correct manufacturer has changed the design of their switchgear and their current offering fits very poorly in an older CU of their own make.

then of course there are the examples of absolutely identical mcb's with different brand names stamped on them. they clearly all come off the same production line, or at very least are built to ther same design, but having the wrong logo on them makes it "wrong" to fit them.

Now wouldn't if have been nice if the BS specs had actually specified the busbar height above the din rail so any make would fit any CU?

Oh, and you have to laugh at certain makes of CU where the main switch output terminal is a different height to the mcb input terminals, and they put a kink in one of the busbar fingers and a label on it so say that goes into the main switch.  Now id WE put a kink in busbar finger to do that, it would be classed as "wrong"

 

[Lurch]

Who else has flicked through PE this month?

Stopped bothering ages ago. Complete pile of drivel and nonsense, they never print any of my letters outlining all of the technical mistakes in every issue (usually mostly in the 'caught on camera' section).

 

[Tony S]

Now wouldn't if have been nice if the BS specs had actually specified the busbar height above the din rail so any make would fit any CU?

The British Standard consumer unit? Now there’s a thought.

1mm pressed steel body, armour glass cover, built in fire suppression.

If you think about it the Wylex BS3036 was as near as we’ve ever got to a “standard” CU.

 

[Evans Electric]

Stopped bothering ages ago. Complete pile of drivel and nonsense, they never print any of my letters outlining all of the technical mistakes in every issue (usually mostly in the 'caught on camera' section).

They printed one of my letters once and I won one of those super label printers which I still use.

( I think it was telling them not to print any letters from anyone called Lurchio  !!!!  :innocent )

 

[kerching]

My letter "missed" the publication deadline, allegedly

mind you it was ripping the NIC a new orifice from which to,pass digested food through

 

[Evans Electric]

I stopped looking at the Caught on camera pics TBH  they're too small or I need new specs. 

 

[SBS Dave]

421.1.201 says that consumer units should comply with BSEN61439-3, not be certified to BSEN61439-3. If a consumer unit with the generic equivalent of the branded device was assessed against the requirements of BSEN61439-3, it would comply, but would not be certified with a mix of brand devices. In fact any device to the IEC/BSEN standard would probably comply, provided it was a good physical fit and met the thermal requirements.

133.1.1 requires every item of equipment to comply with the appropriate IEC / BS / EN/ other national standard, which mix and match items would and is not the issue. If a Consumer Unit is deemed to be an item and doesn't comply with 133.1.1, then 133.1.3 allows other arrangements, provided the designer confirms that it provides at least the same degree of safety.

On the subject of "other switchgear", I have it on good authority that an "electricity isolator switch" is not considered to fall into that category, so a BSEN60947-3 Switch in a plastic box would comply with BS7671. It would make sense, however, to use a metal or metal-clad box to house the Switch, but would not need to comply with BSEN61439-3.

SBS Dave

 

[Andy™]

gave up reading it years ago. especially the caught on camera

some highlights from it showing the incompetence of some of their readers (and staff for publishing it)



erm... since when does a report allow you to remove the fuse? and since its red that should have been a give away that its not a normal fuse carrier. nor is it of his concern what DNO fit on their equipment

and then there is this....



er... that would be split con. you buy the cable like that. someone hasnt used 7 strands of 6491 alongside 1 larger 6491

and both of above claim to be 'professional electricians'?

 

[Blue Duck]

Damm you Andy photobucket gave me a virus! :lol:

The fuse blank also turned up in the NICEIC errection's magazine claiming that someone had gone to the effort of machining the tube to fit the fuse carrier rather than breaking out the tin foil.

In the second picture the they claim that there is no rcd present yet the cables are black n red and there is nothing to suggest the date of the installation or that it was in an environment that required RCD''s.

makes you wonder....

 

[steptoe]

Ah , but those pix are sent in by installers, 

If it didn't comply with the regs on the day they learnt that page then every install like that is wrong.

Just like 16mm tails are illegal, and there is no such thing as 10 or 6mm tails, the only ones you are ever allowed to use are 25mm