Question For Prodave

[Sharpend]

Are we sure this isn't a power trip for salmon' (call him that as he's swimming against the tide!)

Is he not just hoping for the yes vote so he can lord of the country go down in the history books, etc then be seen as the figurehead of all negotiations with England as to what he wants from us for the interests of Scotland? I think it's all just theatre unfortunately though the audience will be the ones to suffer.

 

[apprentice87]

What if, what if, Apparently they will have to re-apply to join NATO, well, what if Mr Putin gets them on the phone and makes them a good offer to join the Warsaw pact??? Ha ha, then the government will know how the russians feel. Mr Putin might put in a good offer you know, a free moskvich car and a ural motorbike!!! Yep, i would like one of them!!!

john...

 

[steptoe]

What if, what if, Apparently they will have to re-apply to join NATO, well, what if Mr Putin gets them on the phone and makes them a good offer to join the Warsaw pact??? Ha ha, then the government will know how the russians feel. Mr Putin might put in a good offer you know, a free moskvich car and a ural motorbike!!! Yep, i would like one of them!!!

john...

you know what, ?

that offer has been on the table,

why else do you think the UK remainder of the UK MUST remove its nuclear force from Scotland,

nothing to do with anti nuclear imho, its about king alec and his power trip aqnd his new 'friends' ,,,,,,,

just wait til the people of Scotland see who is running the new 'non nuclear' submarines they have then.........

 

[Sharpend]

Now that's an interesting angle to think about!

So historically pre uk who did the jocks hang about with??????

 

[steptoe]

mmmmm,

depends on the tribe tbh,

the picts were mostly the island to their west,

the northerners were mostly the islands to their North and East,

think Thomas the tank Engine, the island of SODOR, means the southern isles, which is actually the hebrides etc,

the term is 'Sodor and Mann' meaning the southern isles [hebrides] and the Isle of Man,

BUT,

how far back historically do you want to go?

England is a bit of a bastard nation as far as nationalities go, its been invaded and occupied so many times it doesnt really even have its own DNA,

the English indigenious [???] population isnt really a proper race.

 

[ProDave]

What if, what if, Apparently they will have to re-apply to join NATO, well, what if Mr Putin gets them on the phone and makes them a good offer to join the Warsaw pact??? Ha ha, then the government will know how the russians feel. Mr Putin might put in a good offer you know, a free moskvich car and a ural motorbike!!! Yep, i would like one of them!!!

john...

Funny you should mention that.

Salmond was on the news last night making his final plea.  His "Fellow Citizens.. " speech sounded just like Citizen Smith "come the glorious day of the revolution...."

He really did sound like a communist the way he was speaking. So nothing would surprise me.

 

[binky]

So today unemployment at its lowest for 6 years today.

self -employed, many part-timers, and earning peanuts - we lost the quality jobs that paid good money when we lost our industrial base. And don't think governments don't tweak figures, Thatcher made over 600 changes to remove people from the official un-employed, and encouraged doctors to put people on disabilty allowances....

 

[Doc Hudson]

So today unemployment at its lowest for 6 years today.

Whoever is "running" government each and every party always doctors figures to make things look better for their policies. No different to a large company giving its annual report, and doctoring and glossing the statistics to make things look more positive to attract investors. Governments manipulate figures to attract voters. 99% of the figures bear little relationship to the everyday working mans situation. It is about a useful as saying the sky is bluer and the grass is greened than it has ever been for the past 20 years. Just random figures that mean nothing. A more realistic view of the employment market would be to know about employment satisfaction and the flexibility to change jobs if you wanted to.

What percentage of the workforce are happy with their current employment status and conditions?

How many people would like a better job? (may be related to pay, hours, commuting distance, job satisfaction, pressure & stress of unrealistic targets, boredom, over qualification, flexibility for family other commitments etc.)

How easy is it to get a better job?

How many are too scared to leave an unhappy employment position due to the fear of finding another job?   

I can see Binky's point that without a substantial manufacturing base, actually buying raw materials and making products to sell, job opportunities and flexibility will always be a scarce commodity. Real industry had a range of employment opportunities, office, sales, shop floor, management, technical, manual labour etc. and career paths to progress up. Unfortunately part-time working in retail, or call centers is not the foundation to build a strong economy. If more people are employed and earning a living wage why is there the profusion of pay-day loan businesses? I would guess pay-day loans are also the highest for many years as are food banks, debt advice agencies and other such places. Don't be fooled by statistic look around at the real world outside.

Doc H.

 

[Sharpend]

Should never base your judgement on what they say but what they actually do.

 

[Steve3948]

No good living in the past, the flat cap went out of fashion years ago, its 2014 not 1820  :innocent

Whoever is "running" government each and every party always doctors figures to make things look better for their policies. No different to a large company giving its annual report, and doctoring and glossing the statistics to make things look more positive to attract investors. Governments manipulate figures to attract voters. 99% of the figures bear little relationship to the everyday working mans situation. It is about a useful as saying the sky is bluer and the grass is greened than it has ever been for the past 20 years. Just random figures that mean nothing. A more realistic view of the employment market would be to know about employment satisfaction and the flexibility to change jobs if you wanted to.

What percentage of the workforce are happy with their current employment status and conditions?

How many people would like a better job? (may be related to pay, hours, commuting distance, job satisfaction, pressure & stress of unrealistic targets, boredom, over qualification, flexibility for family other commitments etc.)

How easy is it to get a better job?

How many are too scared to leave an unhappy employment position due to the fear of finding another job?   

I can see Binky's point that without a substantial manufacturing base, actually buying raw materials and making products to sell, job opportunities and flexibility will always be a scarce commodity. Real industry had a range of employment opportunities, office, sales, shop floor, management, technical, manual labour etc. and career paths to progress up. Unfortunately part-time working in retail, or call centers is not the foundation to build a strong economy. If more people are employed and earning a living wage why is there the profusion of pay-day loan businesses? I would guess pay-day loans are also the highest for many years as are food banks, debt advice agencies and other such places. Don't be fooled by statistic look around at the real world outside.

Doc H.

Doc, people live beyond their means in this day and age, and will do anything to get it.

When I was a kid me and my brother used to have a bath once a week on Sunday in the kitchen sink because my parents could not afford to fill a bath with hot water.

As the older brother my clothes were handed down to my younger brother who never had new clothes.

Bread and beef dripping on a Sunday for tea.

Today people think they are owed a living and not do a lot for it, why work if the state pays you to stay at home.

 

[binky]

Not everyone lives beyond their means, and I think the recession has changed that substantially, but you are totally right about 'expectations'. Can't think how many times I've seen people whinging that they can't afford a holiday on the TV. Holidays are a luxury, always have been, always will be! Still find it interesting going into older peoples houses who still live a very frugal lifestyle. It's not the way I want to live, but that's why I work hard to earn some dosh, and I only spend the money I have.

Going back to an earlier point, manufacturing ( and the building game) used to provide a lot of skilled relatively well paid jobs, interesting work to boot! I know, I used to have a job in industry. Today, you have to work for minimum wage (or own the business that only pays minimum wage to earn a decent crust), and there are far less opportunities to get off the bottom ladder. That in turn means our customers are nearly all a bit skint, and it also means that lots of people will work for less than they are worth in a trade, just to earn something slightly better, undermining the earnings of us all. Bung in a few million migrants just to rub salt in the wound, and hey-presto we all spend time on here moaning that we can't earn a decent living befitting a technical trade with the very real danger of being killed. On top of that it allows the big companies to exploit skilled trades with lower wages to make more profit for themselves, then pay tax in a country overseas taking even more money out of the country - so much for free-market capitalism!!

 

[apprentice87]

Steve,

In 1820 we led the world, we were "the workshop of the world" What are we now??? Next to bankrupt...

When i was growing up, [unless you had something wrong with you] you would go to college, pass exams and a PROPER apprenticeship. [in the way that i presume you did]

You would get a proper job in a PROPER industry, AND, you had a reasonable prospect that this would be a job for life. Your dad could sign the HP on a motorbike for you [safe in the knowledge that you had a proper job] and you would go on from there.

You had every expectation that you would serve your time, get better money, and that you would be able to buy a house and everything else, within reason.

What do the kids have now?? I have even had a lot say to me; "What is the point of going to college, you might as well stack shelves in tesco and get more money"

They have NO, as in ZERO chance of ever affording a house, and no chance of ever having a secure future. Even school teachers and the like are to a large degree on one year contracts. How can they ever plan for the future????

Where i live, wales, the valley towns and villages were largely self regulating. Everyone had a job and prospects. If you messed about in work or college, your dad was SURE to find out, and you were in BIG trouble. Now with no prospects, the kids run amok, drugs and all the rest. "the devil makes work for idle hands and all that"

A large lever to make us behave when we were younger was that; "If you get in trouble with the police you will never get a job" Not a good one with prospects anyway. Result?? You well and truly behaved...

Thatcher the nutcase ruined all that.... Coal not wanted???? the minute they stopped mining here the docks have never been busier, only this time IMPORTING foreign coal, huge mountains of the stuff. Funny how the men of Tower colliery went on for 13 years after british coal said the place was "uneconomic" They sold every once of the stuff they produced. Turns out that Scargill was right with his predictions, he even had the numbers right.... When the mines went so did all the support industries, everything went.... Entire towns just went down the pan...

Engineering... "old fashioned metal bashing"???? Tell that to the Germans....

YES people were poor years ago, BUT, the difference is, they had the prospects to educate and improve themselves. To a large extent this is something that the kids now have had removed from them, their prospects.... 

You take it from me, people talk about hooligan kids and all the rest, but if these kids saw that if they had the prospects that people had to improve their lot years ago, i think you would find that these "hooligans" would jump at the chance....Think about it....

[SIZE=12pt]john...[/SIZE]

 

[kerching]

As some of you know i presently "have a bit of time on my hands"

Daytime TV is full of

Border control

US customs

Aus frontline

Etc etc

All,progs about border security

FFS you cannot get into Aus if you have a fricking banana with you, or even if you once spotted somebody in the street 20 years ago looking in a butchers window

In this country, border control...."have you any money with you?.....NO?......well come in then. How much do,you,want?"

FFS they catch illegals at Heathrow, not enough time to process them. "Do you promise to come back tomorrow Mr Ndabaningi Shithiole? Then we can slot you??" Promise?

Do,they come back?......is Stuart Hall sitting down yet?

Come on UK , get your arshe into gear....we are in reverse at present

 

[Steve3948]

Steve,

In 1820 we led the world, we were "the workshop of the world" What are we now??? Next to bankrupt...

When i was growing up, [unless you had something wrong with you] you would go to college, pass exams and a PROPER apprenticeship. [in the way that i presume you did]

You would get a proper job in a PROPER industry, AND, you had a reasonable prospect that this would be a job for life. Your dad could sign the HP on a motorbike for you [safe in the knowledge that you had a proper job] and you would go on from there.

You had every expectation that you would serve your time, get better money, and that you would be able to buy a house and everything else, within reason.

What do the kids have now?? I have even had a lot say to me; "What is the point of going to college, you might as well stack shelves in tesco and get more money"

They have NO, as in ZERO chance of ever affording a house, and no chance of ever having a secure future. Even school teachers and the like are to a large degree on one year contracts. How can they ever plan for the future????

Where i live, wales, the valley towns and villages were largely self regulating. Everyone had a job and prospects. If you messed about in work or college, your dad was SURE to find out, and you were in BIG trouble. Now with no prospects, the kids run amok, drugs and all the rest. "the devil makes work for idle hands and all that"

A large lever to make us behave when we were younger was that; "If you get in trouble with the police you will never get a job" Not a good one with prospects anyway. Result?? You well and truly behaved...

Thatcher the nutcase ruined all that.... Coal not wanted???? the minute they stopped mining here the docks have never been busier, only this time IMPORTING foreign coal, huge mountains of the stuff. Funny how the men of Tower colliery went on for 13 years after british coal said the place was "uneconomic" They sold every once of the stuff they produced. Turns out that Scargill was right with his predictions, he even had the numbers right.... When the mines went so did all the support industries, everything went.... Entire towns just went down the pan...

Engineering... "old fashioned metal bashing"???? Tell that to the Germans....

YES people were poor years ago, BUT, the difference is, they had the prospects to educate and improve themselves. To a large extent this is something that the kids now have had removed from them, their prospects.... 

You take it from me, people talk about hooligan kids and all the rest, but if these kids saw that if they had the prospects that people had to improve their lot years ago, i think you would find that these "hooligans" would jump at the chance....Think about it....

[SIZE=12pt]john...[/SIZE]

John,

My apprenticeship was in the 70's when we were hit with the 3 day week, caused by miners industrial action.

This caused the firm I worked for to go bust, and the large building company we were contracted to.

I was lucky and moved onto another firm to continue with my apprenticeship, but many of the Electricians I worked with could not find work due to the short weeks and companies just trying to stay afloat.

The miners caused all this unrest and the unions did not give a toss about anyone that was not a miner, where I lived it ruined many lives.

It was not the Governments failing it was the union's with Lord status that almost crippled this country and if they could they would do it again.

My opinion was at that time that Labour was run by the unions, so they would never ever get my vote. 

 

[ProDave]

John,

My apprenticeship was in the 70's when we were hit with the 3 day week, caused by miners industrial action.

This caused the firm I worked for to go bust, and the large building company we were contracted to.

I was lucky and moved onto another firm to continue with my apprenticeship, but many of the Electricians I worked with could not find work due to the short weeks and companies just trying to stay afloat.

The miners caused all this unrest and the unions did not give a toss about anyone that was not a miner, where I lived it ruined many lives.

It was not the Governments failing it was the union's with Lord status that almost crippled this country and if they could they would do it again.

My opinion was at that time that Labour was run by the unions, so they would never ever get my vote. 

And of course Maggie sorted all that out in the late 1970's / 1980's

But I dare not say I supported her. :run

People forget what a dire state the country was in at that time.

 

[Blue Duck]

It's a balance we are missing

the iron lady got some things right as did Mr Blairs wife but the two parties are too far apart in their thinking so it's one way or another no happy medium

 

[kerching]

I have achieved a reputation of binary 15

Or. 1111

Just saying

 

[Blue Duck]

I have achieved a reputation of binary 15

Or. 1111

Just saying

Perhaps you should be the next primeminister? Not sure the current one could get that kind of rep.

 

[ProDave]

There are only 10 types of people.

Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

 

[pewter]

I am glad we no longer have people in coal mines, and sweat shops all over the country. It was rubbish work and the youth we have would not want to do it, i wouldnt.

The coal is still there in the ground, we can dig it up and use it later when its worth more. Shame we didnt do that with all our gold.

The Germans have got it right, everything they make is top quality. They have BMW, VW, Audi, Mercedes we had British Layland. I did work for a German family, they said i was so efficient i could be German, which i took as a great compliment.

Who remembers Comic Strip presents?  this episode 'Strike' is fantastic,  Al Pacino playing Arther Scargill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSywDBev5ss