Reporting the cowboys

[NozSpark]

I understand that there are migrants doing electrical work in this country that are not trained to BS 7671 . how can their work comply to our regs . When I spent nearly 4 yrs at college the course work was based on BS 7671 16th ed I've had to update to 17th so the training is on going . I think that a licence system should be introduced to any bonafide electrician . They have a scheme set up in Australia where you have to have training and testing to prove your competency the same in the USA where a similar scheme exists before you can attempt any electrical work . Wouldn't that clear up any grey areas Guinness

Not really......

You will always have people who do not want to pay the going rate for work and also other people who are willing to work under the radar,, you will not get away from that.. People will just break the law knowingly

Much like music and video games.. you can buy them at the going rate or knowingly break the law and buy/obtain pirate copies or use file sharing.. people do and always will

 

[bengie]

very true, but it might stop the honest customers getting dangerous work done by people who appear to be and claim to be legit and fully qualified.

 

[Megaohm7]

Not really......You will always have people who do not want to pay the going rate for work and also other people who are willing to work under the radar,, you will not get away from that.. People will just break the law knowingly

Much like music and video games.. you can buy them at the going rate or knowingly break the law and buy/obtain pirate copies or use file sharing.. people do and always will

I see your point . It's always going to be tough to police . It does infuriate those that are trying to play it straight .. headbang

 

[nicks electrix]

I am with ELECSA and recently got a news letter through saying that they have been working with ROGUE TRADERS to show people what hidden dangers there are if they got the work done by a cowboy.

Hopefully this will work.

 

[sparkytim]

Trading Standards are the people to notify, but it comes better from the customer, it is difficult to get them to complain unless they realise the situation.

Be careful, if the Non compliant contractor gets wind of who shopped him he can get a bit nasty.. :innocent

 

[Megaohm7]

I am with ELECSA and recently got a news letter through saying that they have been working with ROGUE TRADERS to show people what hidden dangers there are if they got the work done by a cowboy.Hopefully this will work.

I'm pleased that Elecsa are doing this , maybe Napit and the Niceic can also get involved as It can only do good for their members

 

[maselec]

I understand that there are migrants doing electrical work in this country that are not trained to BS 7671 . how can their work comply to our regs . When I spent nearly 4 yrs at college the course work was based on BS 7671 16th ed I've had to update to 17th so the training is on going . I think that a licence system should be introduced to any bonafide electrician . They have a scheme set up in Australia where you have to have training and testing to prove your competency the same in the USA where a similar scheme exists before you can attempt any electrical work . Wouldn't that clear up any grey areas

I think this is more or less spot on. We are qualified sparks and that is it. No part p, no notification, no making money for scam providers (non-profit making? Don't make me laugh). How many times and to how many different people do you have to prove competency? My assessor came, talked to me about football for half an hour, looked at a minor works cert and watched me perform a Zs test on a socket. I could have trained my wife to do that in half an hour. How many people are doing a wonder course and then getting through assessments like this? Or on the other hand you can do a 4 year apprenticeship and then start to think about your regs and testing and inspection. Is this not a better way to prove competency?

 

[bengie]

^well said!^

 

[Theorysparky]

My assessor came, talked to me about football for half an hour, looked at a minor works cert and watched me perform a Zs test on a socket. I could have trained my wife to do that in half an hour. How many people are doing a wonder course and then getting through assessments like this?

So you feel you were not assessed properly by Napit,,, could be argued then you think they are money making cowboys ????

Or on the other hand you can do a 4 year apprenticeship and then start to think about your regs and testing and inspection. Is this not a better way to prove competency

why would i want to do a 4 year apprentiship if all i wanted to do was domestic house bashing ??

its not rocket science.....

 

[Voltimax]

why would i want to do a 4 year apprentiship if all i wanted to do was domestic house bashing ??

its not rocket science.....

Is it any wonder that electricians who served an apprenticeship get upset when comments like that are made? Rocket science it may not be, but don't give the impression that any one can do it, because many can't and we see this on a daily basis.

Not having a pop, but we're all in this together, so let's not create divides eh? O)

 

[Theorysparky]

Is it any wonder that electricians who served an apprenticeship get upset when comments like that are made? Rocket science it may not be, but don't give the impression that any one can do it, because many can't and we see this on a daily basis.Not having a pop, but we're all in this together, so let's not create divides eh? O)

Fair enuff i appologise to the apprentices :coat

i know quite a few guys who had an apprenticeship but wont do domestic because they dont want to !!

but my point was about the op getting grief about his question when he could well have been an apprentice...... if that was the case........

 

[davetheglitz]

I think this is more or less spot on. We are qualified sparks and that is it. No part p, no notification, no making money for scam providers (non-profit making? Don't make me laugh). How many times and to how many different people do you have to prove competency? My assessor came, talked to me about football for half an hour, looked at a minor works cert and watched me perform a Zs test on a socket. I could have trained my wife to do that in half an hour. How many people are doing a wonder course and then getting through assessments like this? Or on the other hand you can do a 4 year apprenticeship and then start to think about your regs and testing and inspection. Is this not a better way to prove competency?

In fairness every NAPIT operative should have 2391 Inspection and Testing - what better way to prove competence. Much better than the 2381 which can be passed by anyone with good referencing skills and GCSE Physics.

With some providers - only one person in the firm needs to be qualified - and if there are 10 blokes working in the firm what is the assessment really doing? Pick your best player and the best job - the rest can go hang!

We can't effectively police our own schemes - what chance with a cowboy!

 

[sparkatus]

Yes it is just another obstacle between you and making a living, it's worth pointing out to the clients who want the cheapest quote that it is unlikely their insurance will pay out on their policy when,not if,the said property goes up in flames!!.

Better still,just quote as you see fit and scarper...when the inevitable happens, you may be the 1 that gets called back to re-wire the gutted property...if you dont....even better..ha ha ha

Either way, just leave the cowboys and the cheap quote brigade together, they suit each other somehow.!

 

[confused-fuse]

i have seen some right cowboy jobs over the last few years most of them are from migrant workers some from well cowboys EG no paper work,no diagrams,no lables,no bonding. some old dear having pests knocking on there door saying " oh its law now you need to have your cu replaced with a new 17th edition cu and all new bonding it's the law love" and thay just replace it with a old 16th and 1 6mm earth strap and tag no other bonding..invoice

 

[professional]

Unfortunately, Scheme providers couldn`t care less that we are losing out to the unregistered sparks - as long as they get their registration fee each year why should they care?

We have to realise that that Scheme providers are not there to represent the interests of our business but THEIRS. If they truly cared about their members they would pump their money into advertising Part P etc and not THEIR BRAND!

Anyone ever wondered why sparks have no representation in their own industry? - it is no accident I can assure you! - A collective voice for sparks would be capable of asking the wrong questions of the vested interests and that would never do...........

 

[professional]

In fairness every NAPIT operative should have 2391 Inspection and Testing - what better way to prove competence. Much better than the 2381 which can be passed by anyone with good referencing skills and GCSE Physics.With some providers - only one person in the firm needs to be qualified - and if there are 10 blokes working in the firm what is the assessment really doing? Pick your best player and the best job - the rest can go hang!

We can't effectively police our own schemes - what chance with a cowboy!

Surely an employer assessing his own sparks as competent is a conflict of interest, such an assessment should be done on an individual basis by the Scheme provider - yet the dangerous QS system is allowed to continue right under the nose of DC&LG.

Such an obvious abuse of the system would never stand up to external scrutiny - but the vested interests make sure that this NEVER happens.

 

[professional]

Hi everyone,I know a lot of you on here don't like the tradesmen websites and in general I would agree with you, however I get a reasonable trickle of decent work from the tradesmen site that I am on (about 20 jobs in the past 12 months including a few full re-wires) and have made a couple of contacts, making it worth the fees. My issue is this. I have looked up a number of the regular firms on the site (mainly the ones with good feedback like myself) and I would say that only about half are part p registered, if that (having checked on the competent persons website). I have also posted a couple of my own fake jobs (naughty, I know) in order to see what my competiters were quoting and the unregistered guys clearly aren't informing LABC. 3 bed semi re-wire weighs in at around a grand and a consumer unit upgrade at

 

[Megaohm7]

I'm more convinced that a licence system for electricians to ply their trade would be the way forward . You wouldn't want someone working on your gas appliances unless He/She had the correct up to date certificate to say they were competent in working safely with gas . Why can you still buy C/U 's from diy stores ? even if you notify LABC before fitting them , You still have to be competent . many try and have a go that are not competent and it all goes wrong and simply do not have a clue about testing let alone filling out the certs . When you spend nearly 4 yrs attending college and working on the tools You realise that there is a lot more about being an electrician than fitting plug tops and changing light fittings . I bet that the domestic installers on here see horror story's on a daily basis . ray

 

[bengie]

^I know i do working on council houses with tenants having a go

 

[bengie]

Fair enuff i appologise to the apprentices :coat i know quite a few guys who had an apprenticeship but wont do domestic because they dont want to !!

but my point was about the op getting grief about his question when he could well have been an apprentice...... if that was the case........

depends on the house your working on, i'm working on one right now that is far from run of the mill, it took 100m of 1.5mm T&E and 60m of 1.5mm 3c&E to wire the kitchen and dining room lights alone and the house isn't that big(kitchen/dining room combined is only 6mx5m), the two rooms have 4 lighting circuits in them and control a further 3 outside lighting circuits. "house bashing" isn't always small and simple.