Rewire needed 2 - The saga continues (unlike the cpc)

[Couleddie]

Re - previous thread - my assumptions were a little off the mark but a first visual inspection brought up a number of 'issues' mainly caused by the work of Mr Bodge-it. Took some pics so have a look, folks, and any comments would be very much appreciated.

CPC to gas supply can be seen here - origin unknown as I haven't looked under the floor yet.

This is the garage circuit. No idea why it was joined here but it perhaps is not the correct way to do things!!

Incoming cpc - braided cotton cable - 2.5mm?

Interesting metal joint box. Incoming pvc 1.5 for upstairs circuit. Outgoing pvc to kitchen lights - kitchen is downstairs. Outgoing RUBBER 2 core going to upstairs lights. Inspection of upstairs lights shows pvc loop wiring. Somwhere the rubber cable is joined to the PVC but I haven't found it yet. Assume it is in loft where I haven't had a look yet. So, upstairs lights have no cpc.

Socket in hall. Looks like early 60s? Cable IS pvc. Wiring is in good order but old.

Socket on landing. Same as above.

Other stuff i've come across that I haven't photographed:

1 - Inaccessible socket under kitchen units supplying oven and ignition. Plugged in via 3 way adapter. Flex cables hanging out of plugs. Socket on downstairs ring.

2 - Questionable ring main continuity in kitchen. Sockets installed by an idiot and his mate! Washing machine, fridge, diswasher, oven and all worktop appliances on this circuit. Dodgy looking spurs. Not had chance to test yet.

3 - Sockets added incorrectly to ring. Junction boxes screwed on to skirtings, cables running unclipped along skirtings and conduit running unclipped on walls and skirtings.

4 - Brass light switches with no earth connection to plates

5 - Upstairs ceiling rose hanging off ceiling

6 - PVC Cable to garage run in ancient metal conduit fixed to fence (with cable chaffing on edge). Conduit not fixed substantially. Cable exits conduit and runs unprotected externally and diagonally up fence to garage.

7 - Garage wiring indescribable without profanity.

Here's what i'm proposing so far:

1 - New ring for kitchen 32A

2 - New circuit for oven 16A

3 - New ring for downstairs/upstairs 32A (don't feel it necessary to install 3 rings)

4 - New circuit to garage 20A or 32A with 4mm SWA buried in ground.

5 - New cable to upstairs lighting circuit

6 - New CU Dual RCD - recommendations welcome. Tend to like MK.

7 - CPC upgrade

8 - New box of tea bags

9 - A wig so I don't have to tear my own hair out.

10 - A sense of humour

 

[septiclecky]

Why not just say you recommend a total rewire of the property.

 

[Couleddie]

Why not just say you recommend a total rewire of the property.

Because it doesn't strictly need that. Apart from the issue with the rubber cable the lighting circuits seem pretty much up to standard (full testing notwithstanding). Suits me - saves a lot of rechasing and messing about in loft.

 

[Andy™]

that looks like a metal clad TT service head, possibly with fused neutral - get DNO to replace

 

[Couleddie]

that looks like a metal clad TT service head, possibly with fused neutral - get DNO to replace

Thanks for the heads-up on that.Applaud Smiley I'll be on to it tomorrow.

 

[wozz]

i may get shot down for this, but by the looks of the photos i would not be doing anything but recommed a full rewire. dont like the look of that lot.

 

[elvis]

Sorry man,

but if I'm looking at that I'm thinking rewire. Huge list of problems, you are gonna have to move or at least change all the socket boxes if the ones you have photographed are anything to go by, you are adding a bunch of new circuits anyway, some that absolutely need rewired, some that need upgraded.

I think you said in the previous post of this that it is for a friend and I have been in that situation before. You are trying to keep the cost down for the guy and you end up out of pocket (and time) yourself, it is usually in the back of your mind when looking at these jobs that the place needs rewired and half way through you end up thinking to yourself "I shoulda just rewired this effing place!"

Flapping about in attics and ragglin walls is what these jobs are all about whether we like it or not...

You're gonna charge the guy to do more than half the job and a few years down the line he is gonna need to pay you or someone else to do the rest anyway and have all the upheaval twice. You'll feel better in yerself if you get it all done while you're in there, and at the end of it so will the guy you are doing it for.

I would give him his options so far as upgrade is concerned (and don't underestimate the time here either) but recommend a rewire and see what he says... and be ready for the call outs when he starts getting faults on his lighting circuit!

?:-\

 

[a1]

Makes sense, Elvis.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

that looks like a metal clad TT service head, possibly with fused neutral - get DNO to replace

Although those type of heads did have fused neutrals they all should have ( under ESQAW) had a solid link fitted. Some have been missed so if the heads sealed don't go shouting about this unless your sure

 

[Andy™]

Although those type of heads did have fused neutrals they all should have ( under ESQAW) had a solid link fitted. Some have been missed so if the heads sealed don't go shouting about this unless your sure

should have been changed, but i know of loads around my area that have a fused neutral. there is an entire estate of them. ive asked DNO about it, and they say its planned to change them, but until then, its only done on request.

there is also the fact that if it has a metal case, and its a TT supply (which it looks like from pic), you can be 100% sure the metal case isnt earthed!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Although those type of heads did have fused neutrals they all should have ( under ESQAW) had a solid link fitted. Some have been missed so if the heads sealed don't go shouting about this unless your sure

from that picture looks more like the heads held together with parcel tape?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Why not just say you recommend a total rewire of the property.

concure with that m8?

You will waste just as much time trying to test & verify the old bits you are trying to keeping

quicker just to rewire.

those PVC 2.5mm may only have 1.0mm CPC?

why you saying a 16A cooker??

why not just put in 32A give it a bit of future flexibility?

putting one ring for rest of property?

i'd tend to split them smaller now.... cost difference negligible as still have same amount of socket that need fixing & terminating!

easier to meet Volt drop & de-rating factors IMHO.

?:|

 

[Apache]

Electric shower? Immersion heater?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

CPC to gas supply can be seen here - origin unknown as I haven't looked under the floor yet.

CPC? do you mean an equipotential bonding conductor?

didn't think there was a "final circuit" to the gas i.e. a Line/Neutral & CPC?

although you appear to have a level of confidence, a bit of terminology could slip you up when doing C&G's

This is the garage circuit. No idea why it was joined here but it perhaps is not the correct way to do things!!

Irregular joint found...

beware.. quite probably many more inappropriate joints hidden under floors & loft voids?

Here's what i'm proposing so far:

1 - New ring for kitchen 32A

2 - New circuit for oven 16A

3 - New ring for downstairs/upstairs 32A (don't feel it necessary to install 3 rings)

4 - New circuit to garage 20A or 32A with 4mm SWA buried in ground.

5 - New cable to upstairs lighting circuit

6 - New CU Dual RCD - recommendations welcome. Tend to like MK.

Dual RCD CU

therefore better to Split the sockets NOT all on combined up/down

Garage

how long will the run be?

4.0m @ 32a if 20m you will exceed your volt drops for lighting circuit!

Are there any issues with exporting earth?

Existing cables

You cannot assume that the existing cables are any good without doing a few essential test such as R1+R2, Ins Res?

Just a word of caution Couleddie....

Do I read from you other posts you haven't actually got any formal qualifications yet, but you are about to start?

and you are a bit wary of then "science" part of the City&Guilds.

Although you have been tinkering with electrics for a few years, I do think you need to step cautiously when designing an installation for someone else where their safety has to be paramount consideration.

You DO need to do your basic design calculations to verify your proposed alterations will meet BS7671 17th edition. That includes the science & calculation stuff that a qualified spark deals with on a daily basis.

loading, volt drop, de-rating due to installation methods, earth loop impedance values etc.. etc..

It is true that any fool can join a Live to Live Neutral to Neutral Earth to Earth and get power on at a socket or light, but whether it complies with the current regulation is a slightly different consideration.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Electric shower? Immersion heater?

is that a for sale?

stick em on TEF!

 

[Apache]

is that a for sale?stick em on TEF!

No - I was making suggestions

Smoke detectors?

 

[Badger]

blimey any more pieces of electrical equipment in your place pache :^O :^O

 

[Badger]

id give you a fiver :^O

can you send me a paypal invoice :^O :^O

 

[Apache]

You really must be short of work!

You're really putting the hours in.

No christmas light to untangle..................

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No - I was making suggestionsSmoke detectors?

I know!

And I concur with points..

possibly no Imm heater..

but need to allow spare capacity for them sort of things!