Setting up for myself

[Skinny]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and hoping to get some advice!

I'm currently working part-time for an electrical contractor (he's hoping to get more work in to get me on full-time but Covid lockdowns are hampering that) and looking at getting set up properly to do some of my own work to fill in the gaps.  I am fully a qualified electrician (Gold card, 18th edition, inspection and testing quals) but not currently a member of a Part P scheme.  I plan on getting that sorted eventually once I get enough work to justify the initial and ongoing costs of membership.

I've registered as self-employed with HMRC already.  I've got a few jobs lined up for family and friends at the moment, all non-notifiable except for a rewire.  Planning on only doing domestic work for myself.

Just a few questions ...

1)  Would you recommend both public liabiilty and professional indemnity insurance?  And what level of cover do you think for domestic work?

2) For the rewire I'm doing.  A Qualified Supervisor I know is happy to sign-off my work.  But from reading through some posts on here it looks like building control won't accept 3rd party certification, and the Part P schemes also take a dim view of this.  Should I just deal with building control directly and pay the associated fees?  Maybe I should just bite the bullet and use the rewire as an example to join one of the schemes.

3)  For the Part P schemes, does NICEIC membership warrant their fees?  If not do you have any suggestions for cheaper Part P schemes?

Thanks guys, any help appreciated.

Jon

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

1) Professional indemnity will depend upon how much inspection & testing work you intend doing.

Public Liability, if joining for Part-P, most schemes require £2 million cover.

2) Have you asked your local building control what their fees are? 

They are not standard around the country..

And if you are able to issue the BS7671 certification, it is up to building controls discretion the level of fee they charge or not?

See bullet points 3.10, 3.11,  3.12 from Page 12 of Approve document P

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

3) Basically I look at it as purchasing membership with a Part P scheme offers me two basic features..

a: The ability to self certify my work.

This is pretty much the same whoever you are with...

b: The ability to use a trade body logo on my advertising / letter head etc..  so you just consider it as an advertising fee irrespective of part P.

(i.e. pretty much how it operated before Part-P was introduced in 2005)

So this is down to your own personal preference and perception of what prospective customers may or may not look for...

i.e. if you think customers have no idea about any of the electrical trade bodies.. then it makes no difference who you are with..

But if you think some potential customers do have a limited awareness, and are only familiar with one or two trades bodies... 

you need to balance up the membership cost -vs- public awareness -vs- advertising benefit toward gaining new customers...

Any other alleged benefits or features from membership, e.g. tech support / help lines / shop..

are neither here nor there!

 

Guinness  

 

[Evans Electric]

If I were you  I'd do the rewire ...don't  notifying it  ...it will cost you virtually the enrollment fee  to have it certified by LBC  , who will send an NICEIC guy anyway. 

If you intend doing all domestic  you may as well bite the bullet and register now .      Stroma used to be the cheapest but they combined with NAPITT  so I don't know their charges now.     You have two choices   ...NAPPITT / STROMA   are the same  ...NICEIC/ELECSA  are the same  ELECSA is over £500 per year .

Use your rewire as a demonstration job  ...ELECSA  only ask to see one .   

You'll need PL  insurance for Domestic  work  for £2m  

I've been with ELECSA  for years  with no problems  .    You appear to be well qualified , just get the cheque off  and you'll be fine .   Without looking the fee is around  £ 540  .  

Most customers  have no interest in  you notifying the work ...some do ...   but you need this for  any new build you do ,say for a builder.   He'll want to know that you can sign off  the job .    

You also need :-

Copy of The Electricity at Work act 1988 

18th ed Regs  book

PL insurance

Continuity  / insulation /  loop impedance /  RCD testers     C/w  calibration certs . 

And believe it or not , a mains tester  and some MCB lock offs .  

Let us know how you get on .  

 

[Doc Hudson]

I plan on getting that sorted eventually once I get enough work to justify the initial and ongoing costs of membership.

I've registered as self-employed with HMRC already.  I've got a few jobs lined up for family and friends at the moment, all non-notifiable except for a rewire.  Planning on only doing domestic work for myself.

This is the catch 22, if you can't do notifiable jobs that will limit your possible work, and limiting possible work will mean its less cost effective to enrol for notifying you own work. And if you start accumulating customers, but then have to turn notifiable jobs down, you will then start losing some customers. So as Evans says if you intend doing domestic and you are already registered as self employed and you have the qualifications, its probably best to just take the bull by the horns and dive in get as much work as you can and start building your customer base, which would then justify the enrolment. Not sure how strict they are on a first assessment about checking if you have actually notified the work, as they are mostly checking for competence and compliance with BS7671 wiring regulations. Once you've got a couple of fuse box replacements or rewires to use as potential assessment sites then get your application in with whoever you choose. Remember you are not obliged to renew with the same scheme, you can change your mind and cancel one membership and join another scheme.

Doc H.        

 

[binky]

if you can't rely on someome else to supply work, get registered yourself.

Family and friends 'not for profit' - waste of your time and effort unless you can use those jobs to get Part P. . Everybody wants a freebie, but would they do it for you? 

You need to be charging at least £25 an hour for own work to cover overheads, insurane etc etc. 

 

[Murdoch]

Some sound advice on here

Don't forget to keep ALL your invoices for your accountant

 

[Skinny]

Thanks a lot guys, great advice.  I'm going to use the family and friends jobs to fund my Part P, then sign up with NICEIC

 

[Evans Electric]

Not sure how strict they are on a first assessment about checking if you have actually notified the work, as they are mostly checking for competence and compliance with BS7671 wiring regulations. O

In my experience they know you have to start somewhere  ,  I doubt that will be a problem .      They're not going to turn you down so tell them  you will notify it when a member . 

They need us more than we need them . 

 

[binky]

Thanks a lot guys, great advice.  I'm going to use the family and friends jobs to fund my Part P, then sign up with NICEIC

stroma are much cheaper

 

[Evans Electric]

stroma are much cheaper

Are  you sure  Binky ?   they used to be half the cost of the other scams  but I assumed their charges would have gone up when they joined NAPPITT  .

Skinny , if Stroma are still half price , go with them .   All you need is a Competent Persons Scheme    ( CPS)    to enable you to sign off domestic work ...don't pay more than you need .  

The NICEIC  will only cover you as Domestic Installer   ,  you'd need Full Scope to cover comercial / industrial .   

 

[Murdoch]

My Stroma renewal this year was at the previous years rate so they are cheaper

BUT

Do they new members join?

 

[Sharpend]

Well they’d be the first company to charge new members more than existing!! 
see sky, virgin, etc

 

[Evans Electric]

According to their website  , Stroma  charge £240 + VAT      so   £288     just over half the cost of the others .  

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

According to their website  , Stroma  charge £240 + VAT      so   £288     just over half the cost of the others .  

Are you sure that's current & up to date?

e.g. this links quotes the £240 you mention, but it is dated 2017..

http://files.stroma.com/certification/part-p-brochure.pdf

Yet in Aug 2019 the part -P  CPS scheme became part of NAPIT.. 

https://www.stroma.com/news/installer-sale

I thought they were not accepting any new members under the Stroma brand..??

:C

 

[Evans Electric]

thought they were not accepting any new members under the Stroma brand..??

No idea  ....   I  see the  Stroma & the ELECSA  brand  disappearing TBH   ending with just two schemes  .  

Is the gas just two  ?   Gas Safe & Corgi  ?  

 

[OnOff]

Copy of The Electricity at Work act 1988 

Bugger, mine says 1989...

 

[binky]

According to their website  , Stroma  charge £240 + VAT      so   £288     just over half the cost of the others .  

precisely! 

Service isn't as good as NICEIC, but my assessor is sensible and you need to avoid their premium rate telephone line. Email everything. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Bugger, mine says 1989...

So does mine ...who put 88 then  ...............BRIAN !!!!!!!!!!      :C