Shower In Bedroom

[andy_spark]

Going to a job tomorrow where a plumber is renovating a house and is putting a shower in the bedroom.  He has converted a bedroom cupboard to fit a cubicle.  As far as I'm aware there isn't going to be a door to the cuboard just a glass cubicle door.  I've got to fit cubicle light and fan, wire shower plus other jobs. 

I noticed a socket in the bedroom about 1.5m from cubicle and the penny didn't drop until I sat down to work out job.

I realise that this needs to removed/ moved, would a blank plate be sufficient? or change it to a fcu to allow something to be hardwired?

Has anyone had this before? Any ideas?

 I suppose the best answer is to put a door on the cupboard and make the shower a seperate room but not sure that is the plan though...

 

[ProDave]

Sockets must be 3M from the shower.

Under previous regs they were not allowed at all, so you had to have a door too make the shower room separate from the bedroom.

 

[Evans Electric]

Blank it off .

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

And all circuits and pipework in that room have to be either bonded or rcd protected

 

[andy_spark]

Just an update, went back to do job before christmas. I told him all sockets in bedroom within 3m would have to be removed, there were 3 doubles, he didn't realise this and was then a bit worried as the house is for his elderly parents and his mother would want the sockets.  He agreed to build a little partition wall with a door in corner of the room around the cubicle, thus making a seperate room.

I'm going back tomorow to second fix the lights, shower etc.  I have a nagging doubt that the door will be there, as he said he was happy for me to note on the install cert about the new wall being built so me thinks it won't be there.  How will a note about this on the cert stand up, or should i refuse to connect up shower until it is? fingers crossed the wall is there!!

As to the rcds and bonding it is a 16th edition rewire so i'm replacing the mcbs on the cu with rcbos where applicable, fortunately it's a crabtree starbreaker board and this is straight forward.

 

[NozSpark]

Personally, until there is a wall and door there then it is in the same room. If they want to put up a partition and then take it down after you've done your stuff then that's up to them... maybe take photos as evidence?

 

[Evans Electric]

Its an interesting question .  Whether he builds a partition or not is beside the point and I know nothing about the legalites of it all. Sounds like its not happening .  

But what is happening is the owner is dictating his own version of BS 7671  which according to some judge (shown on here I think)  have no standing in  the  British legal system .  However the person responsible for the electrics in a house is the owner  (I believe this is correct)  .

You have advised him , as a professional that 3 sockets should be removed to comply with BS7671 , his decision was to ignore that advice and not pay you to remove them .  

I'm thinking a phrase like :-

" The owner has decided, against my advice, that the 3 sockets which fall within the relevant zones for shower rooms are to remain"

Or :-

Leave the sockets and write under exemptions from the Regs :-  " Until partition is built this install does conform with BS7671"

Rectal orifice effectivly covered I believe.   See what others think.

PS   On the other hand a gas fitter would just refuse to ...say... fit a boiler next to an opening window where the fumes could return into the house and would dictate where said boiler should be fitted.      Are gas regs recognisible in British law I ask ?   

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Going to a job tomorrow where a plumber is renovating a house and is putting a shower in the bedroom.  He has converted a bedroom cupboard to fit a cubicle.  As far as I'm aware there isn't going to be a door to the cuboard just a glass cubicle door.  I've got to fit cubicle light and fan, wire shower plus other jobs. 

I noticed a socket in the bedroom about 1.5m from cubicle and the penny didn't drop until I sat down to work out job. I realise that this needs to removed/ moved, would a blank plate be sufficient? or change it to a fcu to allow something to be hardwired?

Has anyone had this before? Any ideas?

 I suppose the best answer is to put a door on the cupboard and make the shower a seperate room but not sure that is the plan though...

Just an update, went back to do job before christmas. I told him all sockets in bedroom within 3m would have to be removed, there were 3 doubles, he didn't realise this and was then a bit worried as the house is for his elderly parents and his mother would want the sockets.  He agreed to build a little partition wall with a door in corner of the room around the cubicle, thus making a seperate room.

I'm going back tomorow to second fix the lights, shower etc.  I have a nagging doubt that the door will be there, as he said he was happy for me to note on the install cert about the new wall being built so me thinks it won't be there.  How will a note about this on the cert stand up, or should i refuse to connect up shower until it is? fingers crossed the wall is there!!

As to the rcds and bonding it is a 16th edition rewire so i'm replacing the mcbs on the cu with rcbos where applicable, fortunately it's a crabtree starbreaker board and this is straight forward.

If no partition then either:-

1/ blank off the sockets and leave the original socket fronts with the customer...

Tell the customer to call you back when the partition is built, and it will be £25 to come back & re fix them.

2/ fix shower but do not supply or fit the MCB..

Tell the customer to call you back when the partition is built, and it will be £25 to come back & fit the MCB & final test.

If customer refuses to pay anymore then you have to decide whether to

a/ walk away form the job...

b/ carry the loss yourself...

If the customer chooses NOT to build the partition.....

and gets someone else to reconnect the socket fronts or the MCB that you leave disconnected...

then that is not your responsibility!!

But these options also assume you can get the customer to pay for the work so far?????

But then again as it was your fault in the begining....

as you say..

the penny didn't drop until I sat down to work out job. I realise that this needs to removed/ moved

I can fully understand a customer being a bit peeved when the "expert" employed to do the job didn't identify the full requirements at the initial visit.

Most customer I know don't like the ground rules being changed part way through a job!

opcorn

 

[streetlighter]

Whent to a house last year where they had a shower cubicle in the bedroom and the DP switch for the shower was just outside the cubicle on the side of it, you could reach it from in the shower, Also no RCD protection to any of the circuits.

Told them about the serious nature of this setup and they where like oh its been fine for years !

Sent them a Danger notice via recorded delivery.

 

[Steve3948]

Like one I visited, tumble dryer perched on two pieces of timber over the bath, flex through wall into the airing cupboard, socket spur off Imm heater switch.

The woman said I find it very soothing sat in the bath watching the clothes going round.

No RCD, rewirable fuses, no bonding.

Been like it years, so its not a problem, she said.

 

[m4tty]

Accidental de-scoob on that post ^^ sorry

 

[Doc Hudson]

Accidental de-scoob on that post ^^ sorry

I have issued a +ve scoob to cancel out your wayward button clicks.

Doc H.

 

[andy_spark]

Returning to the property on monday there was no partition in place, and the coving, wallpaper, skirting had been fitted and painted, the underlay was back down ready for the new carpet. I checked again that it was intended to be built and was told it would be. 

On tuesday I was told a chippy was coming to construct some sort of door out of a wardrobe, to match the other wardrobes, to fit across the corner of the room across the cubicle entrance, which didn't sound too promising.

I completed all other jobs and left the connection of the shower until last on wednesday. I told him I couldn't connect shower until the sockets were removed, as I didn't want his old dear having an accident before the door was fitted (or I wanted to cover my backside) and I would blank them off and would be happy to return and reinstall them when suitable at no extra cost to him.

Fortunately he agreed and said he couldn't see the need for the chippy now as the sockets had been removed, which was what I suggested about 3 weeks ago!  I took some photos just in case.

 

[ProDave]

I'm willing to bet the socket fairy has been and they are back.

You should have cut the tails in the back box VERY short, such that they would be too short to fit the socket back without crimping extensions on :innocent .

 

[andy_spark]

I'll try to have a look later, I gave him the final bill yesterday and  had a phone call this morning, "The bill seems a bit steep."

I thought it was reasonable, why does everyone want something for nothing!!  

I'm going there to give him a breakdown of costs and get the rest of my money tonight, (hopefully).

 

[froria]

I'll try to have a look later, I gave him the final bill yesterday and  had a phone call this morning, "The bill seems a bit steep."

I thought it was reasonable, why does everyone want something for nothing!!  

I'm going there to give him a breakdown of costs and get the rest of my money tonight, (hopefully).

For some reason everyone is the same. Just like if you price a job for a day and you finish early. You bet they same something.

 

[andy_spark]

It was a job that had things added as they were thought of, smoke alarms, smoke alarm control switch, wireless stat + receiver for the boiler, lights removed from one property to the new. I told him it was time plus materials at the start and stated my hourly rate, all agreed with.  things just built up because they were added on.

Anyway he's got his own plumbing company  so he should be well aware of how things work.

 

[Evans Electric]

They're the worst mate .

No they're not ...solicitors are the worst ...I never won a job for a solicitor , always a case of ...Oh dear, no no no no , farrrr too expensive .  Yeh like you lot work really cheap eh !  

 

[steptoe]

It was a job that had things added as they were thought of, smoke alarms, smoke alarm control switch, wireless stat + receiver for the boiler, lights removed from one property to the new. I told him it was time plus materials at the start and stated my hourly rate, all agreed with.  things just built up because they were added on.

Anyway he's got his own plumbing company  so he should be well aware of how things work.

thats it,

done a job for a plumber 'mate' recently, worked my ass off, even came in one sunday when his wife suddenly decided she wanted UFH and the tiler was about to start,

charged him about 1/2 normal price for end job, even considering his missus kept adding stuff on, he offered me a quarter of what I asked for!!!!!

Im still waiting to get paid, 3 months on, we shall see how it goes, but I wont be doing him any favours anythime soon.