Shower ligt with integrated fan

[persistant1]

Hi everyone i need some help here if possible. Got a customer who wants 4 d/lights and a shower light with fan installed. Currently there is two pull cords 1 for light other for fan. The problem is that she wants the lights dimmable, but as far as i know you cant have dimmer with fan. On the other hand TLC electrical do a dimmable pull cord that can be used with fans has anyone tried these ( see links)input appreciated.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/Wiring_Accessories~Dimmers_All/Dimpull/index.html

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25652/Heating-Cooling/Extractor-Fans/Manrose-Shower-Light-Extractor-Fan-Kit-100mm

 

[Blue Fox]

I recently installed one of these and the fan and tranny for the light had to be wired seperatly even though it was all one unit so you could wire the fan to one pull chord and the lighting to a seperate dimming pull chord possibly??

 

[persistant1]

I have thought of that but to my knowledge the fan is suppose to come on with the rest of the lights. I have not as yet consullted the big red book on this and only going on what another spark told me

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi everyone i need some help here if possible. Got a customer who wants 4 d/lights and a shower light with fan installed. Currently there is two pull cords 1 for light other for fan. The problem is that she wants the lights dimmable, but as far as i know you cant have dimmer with fan. On the other hand TLC electrical do a dimmable pull cord that can be used with fans has anyone tried these ( see links)input appreciated.http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/Wiring_Accessories~Dimmers_All/Dimpull/index.html

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25652/Heating-Cooling/Extractor-Fans/Manrose-Shower-Light-Extractor-Fan-Kit-100mm

The TLC dimmer quite rightly says NOT to be used with fans...

Basic problem..

lower voltage to fan, although it may turn its going to mess up the extraction rate?!

And/or cause havoc with the electronics on the run-on timer circuit if fitted!

Two switches me thinks?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have thought of that but to my knowledge the fan is suppose to come on with the rest of the lights. I have not as yet consullted the big red book on this and only going on what another spark told me

All the regs will say is appropriate fusing & isolation & manufactures instructions.

If the room has no windows...

Building regs suggest it would be appropriate for the fan to come on with lights.. or with a movement sensor!

 

[PC Electrics]

IMO those shower fan/lights are pants. Much better fit a seperate downlight central to the cubicle and use a centrifugal fan with the grille fitted in a corner:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/41379/Heating-Cooling/Extractor-Fans/Manrose-Showerlite-Centrifugal-Chrome-White-35W-Shower-Fan-Kit

 

[persistant1]

In the general information 5th sentence it states "The product is suitable for use where Bathroom fans are installed." Not suitable for Low Voltage wire wound transformers,(electronic type supplied) hence my dilema. I have tried to convince the customer other wise but she is even more persistant than me.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

IMO those shower fan/lights are pants. Much better fit a seperate downlight central to the cubicle and use a centrifugal fan with the grille fitted in a corner: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/41379/Heating-Cooling/Extractor-Fans/Manrose-Showerlite-Centrifugal-Chrome-White-35W-Shower-Fan-Kit

would tend to agree the concept of blocking part of your ventilation duct with a light fitting....

which over the course of time accumulates dust & crap and gradually blocks the duct!!!

is not the best design!

 

[Theorysparky]

Although this is not using a dimmer

i have just installed 2 downlighters and a shower light fan

shower light fan thru an isolator so other 2 lights can be on while working on the fan

dimmable bathroom lights

thats pants

 

[PC Electrics]

Yep, the light unit actually blocks 30% of the area of the grille. Not only that but the fans are usually just cheap axial jobs that couldn't burst a wet paper bag. Then on top of that the light must have the fan working whenever it is on to cool it down with the air flow otherwise the light can melt the grille!

As you say, not the best of designs!

 

[persistant1]

Female customer wants to dim lights when laying in bath listening to simply red what can i say. If she doesnt see the light so to speak i wil wire them seperately and make a note on the cert to cover myself if need be. As for the light itself she saw it at a friends house and thought it was nice

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

In the general information 5th sentence it states "The product is suitable for use where Bathroom fans are installed." Not suitable for Low Voltage wire wound transformers,(electronic type supplied) hence my dilema. I have tried to convince the customer other wise but she is even more persistant than me.

And yet the top line says...

The product is NOT suitable for use where Bathroom fans are installed

50/50

Phone a friend

or

Ask the audience?

Ring up TLC see which line is correct before you pop something IMHO!

 

[persistant1]

Well spotted special location. I just checked the tech specs as i thought these would be the manufacturers instructions, but will give them a ring. Thanks for everyones help hope to return the favour

 

[tom1]

sorry if some of this has been repeted

i have one of them fans they are crap, (i would make a sucking joke but have recived infarctions for crossing the line) so with restraint i carry on.

the fan is inline mains voltage the lights is selv

so would the fan on separate switch work?

dimmer outside the bathroom, remenber to derate or get one for halogens

 

[persistant1]

Have checked the lamps will work with standard dimmers. Will wire the fan with light on an existing seperate pull cord and the others on another. But will see what she decides first. Will most definitly recomend against these in future

 

[Lurch]

I've fitted loads of the Vent Axia Luminair fan\light combos. I've taken on board the less area for extraction, although they have 2 large open sides rather than a grille on the front and a lot of vent terminals have some sort of restriction so I'm not convinced that's a completely valid argument for condemning them.

However, as per the original question, the Luminairs are individually fed from a single SELV transformer\controller so the light can be wired into the lighting circuit in the room and the fan kept separate if needs be.

You can also get something similar to the Manrose kit mentioned above bit in separate parts. I've fitted a couple of vents with lights and then added my own inline fan and these also can be wired independently.

 

[PC Electrics]

However, as per the original question, the Luminairs are individually fed from a single SELV transformer\controller so the light can be wired into the lighting circuit in the room and the fan kept separate if needs be.

No, you can't. These combined fan light units rely upon the air flow from the fan to keep the lamp 'cool'. If the light is on and fan off, the light unit gets so hot it can melt the grille.

It's simple physics - MR16s can run at up to 220C and the softening temp of polycarbonate or polypropylene is around 90C.

I've replaced 2 such light/fan units for this very reason (one was lucky not to have had a loft fire - just wish I had photos) and will not fit them unless the customer is absolutely adamant and I get them to sign the invoice which contains a non-warranty clause.

You put your name to these things at your risk.

 

[kme]

I agree with PCE; in that the fan & light are best served being on together; however:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Ventilation_Index/Shower_Fan_Light/index.html

with

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SLTD160.html

will allow seperate usage, in my experience; providing you use:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MRLAD4.html

Rather than:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/FD4slash3.html

It is possible, albeit awkward, to provide a relay to operate the fan whenever the lights are on **at all**, but IMO that is overkill.

I have the above units, on seperate pullcords, used for about 10 years. Fan has had a clean once ( when I was in the loft & bored), lamps have never been changed and light/vent unit has not melted, distorted or warped. It does only have a 35W lamp in it, to help with temperatures (coolfit).

KME

 

[persistant1]

There certainly are mixed opinions with regarding these, but with regards to the regs would i be safe to install these on seperate circuits without any repocusions from building control

 

[kme]

Bathroom - Generally, they`ll require the fan to have over-run. Some BC inspectors`ll be funny about it, others won`t. Phone local council, speak to building inspector in your area, and see what he says.

KME