So what now?

[binky]

Gina Miller is a succesful business woman in her own right, and certainly not alone.  She is a hard remainer and not out to undermine Brexit, she aims to stop it completely.   She has always made that clear. The ERG have had there own hidden agenda for decades drip feeding anti-EU propaganda via a mostly right wing Murdoch press.

No government, PM, MP, or even the Royal Family are above the law in this country  -  this is an incredibly important point.  It means ordinary people can hold the government to account and it stops dictatorships forming. Ever noticed how tin-pot dictators around the world target the leagl system to control power - same as the Nazi's did in 1934. 

Heard an interesting figure this morning, of the leave votes they reckon only about 70% of them favour a hard Brexit. So that means hard Brexiteers are definetly a minority. This in turn is being reflected in parliament by MPs.  I don't think, by the time you factor in remainers, any faction has an outright  majority. If you assume remianers still want to remain then that in turn suggests they are probably the  majority?? And we wonder why we have a mess  :^O .

 

[Sharpend]

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that remainers had a majority but still :C  

 

[binky]

I haven't, I'm saying hard brexit doesn't have a majority, 70& of 52% is about 36%  of the those that voted in the referendum.

 

[UNG]

I do wonder where we would be if the outcome had been the other way around 52% remain 48% leave what would the 48% leavers have got out of the referendum would they have been able to take legal action, call for another referendum or would they have to gracefully accept the result and move on

It's a question that never seems to get an answer from the bitter remainers

 

[Andy™]

And we wonder why we have a mess  :^O .

we have a mess because politicians dont want to do what the public voted for and leave. they are deperatly trying everything they can to stop it happening, even making new laws to hinder those trying to do what the public voted. hard brexit, with a deal etc wasnt an option on the referendum. it was simply leave. if we can get a good deal out of it then go for it, otherwise its leave without a deal

leaving without a deal will cause some problems. no doubt about it. but what is more damaging imo is not knowing WTGrape is happening and constant uncertaintly about it. just get on with it and see what happens. you never know, it may turn out better than what people are claiming might or might not happen

 

[binky]

I checked the leave campaign website - it just says leave, nothing about a hard Brexit, and some lettuced about how wondeful life will be  :^O .

IMHO leaving without a deal will cause a lot of problems and the loss of a lot of good jobs in manufacturing. But I agree firking about for 3 years isn't helping anything either. I do feel longer term that being out of the EU could be better if we can develop a more dynamic economy, and our govrnment doesn't allow further shafting of things like the NHS by the yanks, or just sell us out to the Chinese.  Trouble is who gets to be made redundant and lose their house in the process?

We will never be free of the EU either way, it's a ruddy big market, and we will still have to comply with their standards to sell anything to them, which is why I much prefer a soft Brexit option. But Brexit is more about heart than head, and there-in lies another issue in this whole mess.

 

[Murdoch]

Things are made any clearer by the hypocrite Chucka Umunna - who is clamoring daily for a 2nd referendum ............. despite the fact he was elected as a Labour MP, then became a Change MP and is now a Lib Dem MP

Surely if he believed in democracy, he would have the guts to face his electorate in a bi-election

As it stands I believe this undermines his argument rather too strongly

 

[binky]

well we have  PM we didn;t vote for, in fact 2 in a row, so he's in good company  :^O .

 

[Sharpend]

i happen to think that boris will deliver Brexit come what may. I wonder how many people will change their opinion of him once he overcomes the whinging labour and co. lets face it listening to them they have no clue as to what they would do, but have a lot of opinion on what the conservatives want to do. they will continue to beat the same drums until the withdrawal agreement is to their liking. 

 

[ProDave]

My worst concern is BoJo WILL come back with a new modified leave deal, and the HOC will reject it.  Then what?

 

[binky]

Boris is doing nothing but trying to force a no deal, he is after all the leader of the ERG.  He is also a proven serial liar, sacked for a nespaper job for lying, sacked from a cabinet jodb for lying, a man who has had several extra marital affairs which involves a large degree of serial lying to his own partner - and you trust this man to lead the country for the benefit of all? 

As for the opposition, they are doing their job of oppossing the governent it's what they are suppossed to do, but lets not forget the Tories have been running the show for 10 years, and the Bexit process for 3 years and courgetteed up big time. Perhaps it's time to vote for someone else?  Fargae if necessary, not that I trust him especially.

 

[binky]

My worst concern is BoJo WILL come back with a new modified leave deal, and the HOC will reject it.  Then what?

This will be an interting scenario - I hope he does do a deal, it will probably look like May's deal, but the ERG will have to back it this time???

 

[Sharpend]

My worst concern is BoJo WILL come back with a new modified leave deal, and the HOC will reject it.  Then what?

this is likely what will happen. then what will their excuse be?

 

[Tony S]

Why do you think I'm buying silver?

A hedge against the pound collapsing.

 

[binky]

this is likely what will happen. then what will their excuse be?

No idea,  bar die hard remainers will still vote against it and the official Labour position is that May's deal wasn'r soft enough. But given the Trump style antagonism of the opposition, I would happily bet Bojo will not get anything through parliament, ever . Just surprised he hasn't used the term 'fake news' yet!  

So I reckon it's deal extension, then general electrion time, then firk knows!!!   Ever since Boris has been in power, he's been electioneering, hence all the promises to spend money like 20,000 new coppers - just enough to replace those retiring and leaving, a bit of money for the NHS, but nothing like the amount taken off them etc etc.

 

[UNG]

 a bit of money for the NHS, but nothing like the amount taken off them etc etc.

Nothing like the amount that Labour took out of the NHS with it's PFI's for new unaffordable smaller not fit for purpose hospitals

But the Labour chancellor McDoughnutDonnell has promised to sort that by binning the PFI's although he is light on the details and that will be another Labour government trashing the organsations that have put up the money to build them

 

[Spoon]

sounds like all the parties are a waste of space..

 

[binky]

Nothing like the amount that Labour took out of the NHS with it's PFI's for new unaffordable smaller not fit for purpose hospitals

But the Labour chancellor McDoughnutDonnell has promised to sort that by binning the PFI's although he is light on the details and that will be another Labour government trashing the organsations that have put up the money to build them

PFIs were a continuation of previous Tory policy who are suppossed to be fiscally superior managers of the economy, and you are correct, they are disgusting deals, so why wouldn't you pull the plug on them? Also makes you wonder about all the other services put out to private companies as part of Tory policy and the real cost to us?  I was actually referring to the cuts due to Austerity, not so much to the NHS but other services like adult care, mental health, youth services, care homes etc etc which is pushing more and more people into the NHS as the only place to get some treatment. I actually think the NHS would have  enough money provided the other servies were funded properly to keep people out of hospitals in the first place (and it's cheaper than hospital care). I've just been trying to research some figures, but it's not a like for like comparison, adult care has lost £1.3 billion in real terms, rising to about £2.6 billion by 2021, but that figure isn't clear cut as councils have increasinly asked people to contribute to their care,  the overall population has increased, the elderly population has increased and the elderly are living longer. Plus those with a bit of money are paying for better care, and the elderly are selling their houses to pay for care. All factors that muddy the figures.

 

[binky]

sounds like all the parties are a waste of space..

Not all MPs are career politicians, although Boris's family clearly are, trouble is we tend to vote by party, not the MP. Where I live you could literally stick a Tory rosette on a dog, and it would win!  We need to re-vamp the electoral system so that we can vote in line with our beliefs, which in my opinion is best achieved by some form of Proportional Representation. By this sytem a certain number of MPs would be elected by total votes gained, eg whenever it was UKIP got 4 million votes but 1 only 1 MP, that can't be right! I think we have about 250,000 people per voting area normally, so you could argue UKIP deserved 8 MPs, although they would not be assigned to an area as such - perhaps not such a good point. I would like to vote Green - it fits with my tree-hugger ideology. I have never voted Green ever, they will never get a majority in my area and so I'm left with tactical voting against the Tory party - no surprise there for those that know me  :^O .  Now that still doesn't sort out voting for the best local MP,  but I think it will certainly help redress the current imbalance that is far too polarised to 2 parties only. I don't run my life in black and white options, life is lost of shades of grey, so why the hell do we run the UK in black and white!  It doesn't make sense, leaves lots of voters basically unrepresented, and IMHO is bad for the country.

 

[UNG]

PFIs were a continuation of previous Tory policy who are suppossed to be fiscally superior managers of the economy, and you are correct, they are disgusting deals, so why wouldn't you pull the plug on them? Also makes you wonder about all the other services put out to private companies as part of Tory policy and the real cost to us?  I was actually referring to the cuts due to Austerity, not so much to the NHS but other services like adult care, mental health, youth services, care homes etc etc which is pushing more and more people into the NHS as the only place to get some treatment. I actually think the NHS would have  enough money provided the other servies were funded properly to keep people out of hospitals in the first place (and it's cheaper than hospital care). I've just been trying to research some figures, but it's not a like for like comparison, adult care has lost £1.3 billion in real terms, rising to about £2.6 billion by 2021, but that figure isn't clear cut as councils have increasinly asked people to contribute to their care,  the overall population has increased, the elderly population has increased and the elderly are living longer. Plus those with a bit of money are paying for better care, and the elderly are selling their houses to pay for care. All factors that muddy the figures.

Very poor research on PFi's