Sold my soul to the devil for what???

[ICB]

Ok gents, see if you can keep up! I'm 2391 and have been since 2003. Was actually testing for 2 years prior to this until my gaffer decided to put me forward for the test, (easy).

I'm not bad at what I do and get told this on a regular basis, installation aswell as testing, but have pretty much worked as a tester for the last 3 years solid. To cut a very long story short, I've now embarked on an electrical/electronic engineering HND which I'm really enjoying as I feel like I'm using my brain again for the first time in a long time!

The problem is I study all day Wednesday and a good chunk of Thursday afternoon too. Since 2003 I have predominantly found all my work on the agencies. (See where I'm going?)

Nobody wants to employ a spark who can only offer them 3.5 days through the week, (unless you know of anybody in the Greater Manchester area???) I realised this some time ago and with the money I'd saved from my time testing at the Savoy I put it into going NICEIC - something I've always resented the idea of, given my experience and quals, but that's another story.

Less than 2 weeks ago I got 'domestic installer' status, the idea being I can find bits of work on the days I'm not in college for myself. I have been reading through the pack today and it would seem my initial understanding of what this status will allow me to do is incorrect - not happy!

Am I right in thinking I have to stump up even more

 

[Tooold]

I had exactly the same a few years back! Paid them even more money only to find Yell and everyone else think only AC can test so I couldnt even advertise, couldnt even list me on the NIC website as able to test! Argue the toss and change to AC there aint much difference to be honest and then you can test,It is carp tho.

 

[Voltimax]

LOL!

I'm sorry I shouldn't laugh because I know exactly how cheesed off you are and the same thing happened to me.

I transferred to NICEIC from Napit on the understanding that I would get DPIR status for free for a year. I didn't even ask for this, but was glad it was offered and I accepted having 2391. Sadly like you I found out via the welcome pack this was not to be. What made it worse was the fact I'd been offered a run of PIR work on rented accommodation on condition that I was registered under a scheme that covered me for such work. Since I had been promised DPIR status with NICEIC I didn't see it as a problem. I ended up losing that run of work and what added insult to injury was the fact I didn't realize when transferring you're still a member of the scheme you transferred from until your renewal date!

I made several calls to NICEIC but they messed me around so badly I told them to cancel my membership. In the end they offered me free DPIR, but after all the trouble it would only be valid for 2 months so I declined. I wrote them a letter expressing my disappointment and it was a very civil letter with no anger expressed, but it didn't even get a reply. I wish I'd have made it an angry and foul mouthed letter now, but I'm sure the result would have been the same.

You live and learn eh?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Sold my sold ?

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

I am sorry, but i think its very clearly set down in the NICEIC literature 'what you get for your money'. You chose the lesser & cheaper option (Domestic installer) which does not include using the NICEIC logo when producing periodic reports.

 

[Voltimax]

You are incorrect in your assumption slipshod. Domestic Installers can pay extra to enable them to carry out domestic periodic inspections under their logo.

EDIT:

My bad I see the OP is only talking about the domestic Installer scheme without the DPIR bolt on. That said, their literature does explain it, but it's a shame that their sales department promise things they can't deliver

 

[springcrocus]

Although it's not my thing, maybe you should have tried NAPIT?

Try giving them a call and explain - they may be prepared to give you a free transfer to their organization. The scam providers will often allow members of one scam to transfer to theirs, free of charge, for the time remaining on your current membership.

I believe that NAPIT members get this cover automatically, but I might be wrong.

Regards,

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Ok gents, see if you can keep up! I'm 2391 and have been since 03. Was actually testing for 2 years prior to this until my gaffer decided to put me forward for the test, (easy). I'm not bad at what I do and get told this on a regular basis, installation aswell as testing, but have pretty much worked as a tester for the last 3 years solid. To cut a very long story short, I've now embarked on an electrical/electronic engineering HND which I'm really enjoying as I feel like I'm using my brain again for the first time in a long time! The problem is I study all day Wednesday and a good chunk of Thursday afternoon too. Since 03 I have predominantly found all my work on the agencies. (See where I'm going?) Nobody wants to employ a spark who can only offer them 3.5 days through the week, (unless you know of anybody in the Greater Manc area???) I realised this some time ago and with the money I'd saved from my time testing at the Savoy I put it into going NICEIC - something I've always resented the idea of, given my experience and quals, but that's another story. Less than 2 weeks ago I got 'domestic installer' status, the idea being I can find bits of work on the days I'm not in college for myself. I have been reading through the pack today and it would seem my initial understanding of what this status will allow me to do is incorrect - not happy! Am I right in thinking I have to stump up even more

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Although it's not my thing, maybe you should have tried NAPIT?Try giving them a call and explain - they may be prepared to give you a free transfer to their organization. The scam providers will often allow members of one scam to transfer to theirs, free of charge, for the time remaining on your current membership.

I believe that NAPIT members get this cover automatically, but I might be wrong.

Regards,

NAPIT does offer a periodic inspection scheme, however i found like many others, rightly or wrongly only NICEIC enrolled contractors are wanted by many organisations.

 

[Voltimax]

NAPIT does offer a periodic inspection scheme, however i found like many others, rightly or wrongly only NICEIC enrolled contractors are wanted by many organisations.

Don't know why, you guys are as rough as a bears rear end :slap

I am of course joking............ you're not smiling.... why aren't you smiling.......

:coat

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Hardly extrotion....Remember a few basics:--

1/ The NICEIC DI scheme was introduced to provide a means for contractors to self certify installation & alteration work in accordance with Part-P building regulations.

2/ Part-P building regulations has NOTHING to do with periodic inspection reports!!!

Bottom line is; You made an error of judgment purchasing the incorrect item for what you wanted..

That unfortunately is NOT NICEIC' problem...

Any more than its Salisbury's problem if I purchase Apples..

But I should have purchased Apples & Bananas!

As SlipSlap said.. NIC are perfectly at liberty to define how & where their logo's can be used,

and we each pay a fee for an appropriate level of usage according to our business needs.

You can perfectly legitimately undertake PIR work and issue Non-Logo'd reports in accordance with the model forms in BS7671..

But of course IF some other businesses are requesting Logo headed reports..

you got to pay & meet the relevant membership criteria to have permission to use Logo Headed reports..

IMHO it is all very clearly written down in their literature & website.

http://www.niceic.com/contractor/schemes

Specs I wish you weren't such an NICEIC stalwart.

You are quite correct in what you say about the literature, no argument there. However.............

Some people phone the NICEIC direct and speak directly to the sales department. I can tell you from experience they will tell you anything you want to hear in order to get you to join. When I had all my troubles with them I had 3 different departments telling me 3 different things. Now i'm not an ignorant individual and I've been around the block. I know all about the different schemes and what they offer. I was offered the DPIR bolt on pack to the DI scheme as part of my transfer. I then found out this was not to be. I was then contacted by a nice lady from sales, who said it was impossible for me to receive this for free. Fair enough, but why was I told I would? She offered an apology and said they would for an extra 200 and some odd quid, send out an area assessor to assess me for full approval. Lovely! Just what I was eventually going to do. 2 hours later a nice lady from admin tells me I can have the DPIR for free as long as I get documentation from Napit to say I've been assessed. I told her it was all sorted and that the nice lady from sales said I could be assessed for AC. Not on your nelly she tells me. It will cost me over

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Specs I wish you weren't such an NICEIC stalwart.You are quite correct in what you say about the literature, no argument there. However.............

Some people phone the NICEIC direct and speak directly to the sales department. I can tell you from experience they will tell you anything you want to hear in order to get you to join.......

.....I realize that you and other NICEIC members are happy with NICEIC, but you obviously haven't had any differences with them that others have, so with that in mind please don't make out that they completely smell of roses, because they don't. None of them do for that matter.

Good morning Mr Volt of the Max household..

Hope you had a good Christmas day? :Salute :xGuinness

Re your post, I would in no way dispute what was, or was not, said during any of your phone conversations with the NIC'y office bods, (only you & they) know that.. (unless you can get "the recordings for training purposes!"

)

However I do not agree with the phrase & comments:-

NICEIC stalwart?? please don't make out that they completely smell of roses?? :C

I do not consider myself a stalwart of anything, except my own business and I never claim any other company smells of roses...

I have only stated a few simple facts that the enrollment terms and conditions and fees are easily available for anyone to see & read!

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File2292.PDF

And that phrase made by the OP that implied NICEIC were operating some kind of extortion was IMHO totally incorrect.

I am a little surprised that you of all people who frequently extols the importance of charging the appropriate rate for the job and including all relevant overheads into costings in a professional manner, has relied solely on a telephone conversation as conformation of enrollment costs and terms to any institution providing a trade membership scheme.

I do also consider myself to be a reasonably clued up individual who has been around the block... (A few times)... and got stuck down a few Culdesac's!

and during my time a few basic business rules I have learned, when considering where to purchase any goods or services that I require, are:-

1/ All businesses, no matter what size, in all sectors of the market place, have staff who occasionally make mistakes.

2/ Some businesses, whilst not obliged to, will honour a mistake even if it is at loss to themselves, if it has overall benefit to the running of the business. Other businesses will keep all transactions purely to their terms and conditions with no-leeway at all.

3/ Any business that does not provide suitable goods or services to its customers, members, at a price they are willing to pay will be out of business.

4/ No business is perfect and we sometimes have to make do and accept the little niggly bits we don't like in favour of the overall package.

6/ Occasionally the best quality product or service doesn't always secure the greater market share, (the classic VHS -vs- Betamax video format is a typical example!), and a reasonable product or service that does the job with a few limitations can become recognised as being a market leader.

7/ With the above points in mind, when choosing any product or service from any organisation, always make sure you are getting what you think you are getting for the price you are paying... (are batteries included with the model, is the software preloaded, is the sunroof an optional extra, do you have to pay more for the 3 year warranty, is unlimited Internet surfing limited by a reasonable use download capacity?)... All standard business practice.

8/ Personally if purchasing anything for

 

[Evans Electric]

I've been doing PIRs for years , once as NICEIC AC, then as nothing at all ,other than being an electrician . ELECSA would like to charge for PIRs , I just do them on a downloaded cert and attach an invoice on my letterhead with ELECSA logo.

As far as I know , PIRs can be carried out by any competent person .

The sooner you leave Rip-off Britain for the Antipodes the better . This country still thinks it is an important player on the global scene when in fact it is now a bankrupt ,no account, unimportant island, situated off the northern coast of Europe, financially sinking under the burden of paying out massive social support to people from countries our ancestors pillaged.

 

[Larnacaman]

Do they have a similar system of Scam companies in other European countries??

I have come into contact with many European Engineers on my overseas projects, but very few electricians.

The more i read here on the Forum, about the role these scam companies play and charge handsomely for, along with all these other costs for PIRs etc, there seems to be a lot of people, living off the backs of electricians in the UK these days!!!

 

[Evans Electric]

I think you're right there Larna . One of the first examples was with double glazed windows , all of a sudden the fitter had to register with FENSA for some reason . Surely all they had to do was say , all glass must be k marked etc which is a manufacters remit .

Must be money in it 'cos who owned ELECSA before ECA took over ...why FENSA !!

Its a ginormous pyramid with electricians, creating all the wealth and turnover, at the bottom ,supporting :--

JIB

ELECSA

ECA

NICEIC

NAPITT

Whatever the ETU are called these days,

IEE

BEEMA

BEAB

C&Gs

ECA scotland

H&SE

And many more I'm sure

 

[Larnacaman]

Not sure if ALL those organisations live of the backs of working electricians...lol!!!

But from what little i know, surely there can be a better way of doing things, that doesn't cost the earth to be a member of. Which brings me to another query, ....What do the Scams actually provide to the electrician from being a member?? OK i understand that there supposed to verify competent electricians, but from what i can see, It seems they are more interested in Fee's, than verifying those that are competent or not...

Wherever there is money involved, then supposed standards normally go out the window, in favour membership numbers.... I think it would have been far more useful to have a self funding government run organisation than this mish mash of private companies running things....

 

[Riggy]

Sold my sole to the devil for what???

A heel?

 

[sellers]

Sold my sole to the devil for what???A heel?

An eel?

 

[Voltimax]

Good morning Mr Volt of the Max household..Hope you had a good Christmas day? :Salute :xGuinness

I am a little surprised that you of all people who frequently extols the importance of charging the appropriate rate for the job and including all relevant overheads into costings in a professional manner, has relied solely on a telephone conversation as conformation of enrollment costs and terms to any institution providing a trade membership scheme.

Quite right Specs, consider my wrist well and truly slapped.

You're right, I wouldn't rely on just a telephone call without reading any paperwork, however some folk do and they do expect to be told exactly the same over the phone as whats written in the literature. Unfortunately this is much of the time not the case, and it isn't just the NICEIC that do this.

I must admit that my sorry tale is not quite the same as the OP's as I was promised something that wasn't delivered, whereas the OP was expecting something that he wasn't entitled to.

My apologies for offending your good self specs.

Never let it be said that Mr max doesn't admit to being wrong :coat

Ohh, and I hope you had a lovely Christmas too Specs Guinness

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Quite right Specs, consider my wrist well and truly slapped....My apologies for offending your good self specs.

Never let it be said that Mr max doesn't admit to be wrong :coat

Ohh, and I hope you had a lovely Christmas too Specs Guinness

:Salute :x :Applaud:worshipGuinness

Don't mention the Wrist-Slapping with Sandra & Jennifer about...

it'll be all whips and thongs before you know it!!!!!!!! :O

]

 

[kme]

WHERE? Are WE invited too????

 

[Tooold]

Agree with most of the comments about op but I didnt make a mistake i did the DPIR add on and only then was I told about not being able to promote it! I even did the 3 day course on it just in case I learnt something! So no advertising and no money back, had similar problems changing to AC, give us