Some advice please

[Timeforchange]

How do you measure competancy?

 

[kme]

If you search back a little, there was thread on that very subject recently. I`m not going to try and condense it, its too big.

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/general-chat-area/15923-what-makes-you-competant.html?highlight=competent

KME

 

[Apache]

I know a lad who is doing a 2 year apprenticeship at the moment and he does a day a week at college. If we took the college period as a rather generous 40 weeks per year the theory component could be taught in exactly the same way in 16 weeks going every day (assuming that the day length for each is the same. In a year that would allow 32 weeks practical experience with his brothers firm. The condensed course the OP mentions seems a good idea.

The other fact that some members don't like to grasp is that some people work in very different ways to others. Apprenticeships may suit a lazy school leaver who lacks motivation, but a bright, well motivated person may breeze through much more easily. If the short course gets him the theory and the qualifications and he then goes and works under these other sparks that can't be a bad way of doing things. You end up with the same bits of paper in the end?

Much of the work of an apprentice seems to be pulling cables, chasing out and collecting stuff from the wholesaler. The first year as a glorified tea boy will teach the 16 year old 'Kevin' a bit about life but aren't needed in a 43 year old man.

If they would let me do the 17th Edition exam only near by and for little cost I would take the bloody thing to prove these things are quite passable if you do your homework.

*tin hat - on*

 

[Timeforchange]

I think it's fair to say that if you are competent in general then it will transfer over and show in whatever you do.I don't allow myself to make mistakes and i always measure twice and cut once.I wouldn't do anything I wasn't 100% comfortable with.

I have been with my current employer for 16 years without giving any reason for incompetance.I am also a Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor for a very well known Ferry company.I could cause far more damage than an electric shock with incompatable products.I am considered competent in and out of work.

I think it's about the attitude of the individual and his ability to work safe, not be afraid to ask questions and know his limitations.

I think your blanket policy of (no to short course people) may work for you but not everyone is the same.I don't have the luxury of 3/4 years day release to college.Where's the harm in doing the course, then working for low wage whilst putting it all into practice? building up experience!

I can assure you that after a year I will be far more competent than a 20 year old that's just done 3 years at college.

Let's be clear i don't expect to do a 4 month course then go out and think i'm a pro! I'll work very hard and long to make myself a good electrician.

It's clear that my preferred route is not popular but due to constraints it's not practical for me to do it any other way.Believe me i'd love to do it the ol skool way!

Consider this! I'd had around 15 hour driving before i passed my driving test, then they gave a licence to drive a 1200kg lump of steel at 70mph, then i went out and learnt to drive properly!!!!

I think that's how most of us done it?

Once again i do respect your opinion and thanks for the comments

 

[Timeforchange]

I know a lad who is doing a 2 year apprenticeship at the moment and he does a day a week at college. If we took the college period as a rather generous 40 weeks per year the theory component could be taught in exactly the same way in 16 weeks going every day (assuming that the day length for each is the same. In a year that would allow 32 weeks practical experience with his brothers firm. The condensed course the OP mentions seems a good idea.The other fact that some members don't like to grasp is that some people work in very different ways to others. Apprenticeships may suit a lazy school leaver who lacks motivation, but a bright, well motivated person may breeze through much more easily. If the short course gets him the theory and the qualifications and he then goes and works under these other sparks that can't be a bad way of doing things. You end up with the same bits of paper in the end?

Much of the work of an apprentice seems to be pulling cables, chasing out and collecting stuff from the wholesaler. The first year as a glorified tea boy will teach the 16 year old 'Kevin' a bit about life but aren't needed in a 43 year old man.

If they would let me do the 17th Edition exam only near by and for little cost I would take the bloody thing to prove these things are quite passable if you do your homework.

*tin hat - on*

Logic and Maths

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have been with my current employer for 16 years without giving any reason for incompetance.I am also a Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor for a very well known Ferry company.I could cause far more damage than an electric shock with incompatable products.I am considered competent in and out of work.

Hmm?

If you consider electric shock to be the most hazardous part of electrical work you are lacking a bit a safety knowledge...

What is more dangerous than death??????

not just by direct contact..

also by smoke / fire damage due to that lose connection or badly designed circuit overloading?

I think there was a tragic accident last week where six members of a family died in a house fire and AFAIK the investigators believe it was started by a faulty electrical appliance?

Be it an appliance or cable or fuse box fires can start well after you have left site due to some negligence of your design or installtion...

I cannot tell you what to do.. you I suspect have already decided you are going to do the short course...

However please consider a few facts:-

These short courses are primarily there to get you to pass an exam (thats how the training company gets paid)

As long as you pass the exam they generally do not worry about how competent you actually are to do practical work.

Training companies will always sell them to you as the best thing. because its is their money earner!

It is very easy to get an electrical circuit to work, it is harder to get it to work safely.

BUT they were initially intended for people already working in the trade who just need to update some of their paper qualification. NOT as a complete package for persons changing trades..

When asking for guidance about the best electrical courses to do... who are the best persons to pay attention to;

Plumbers, brickies, Chippies, ELECTRICIANS!

There is some other guy on the forum moaning about the quality of the tutors on his short course!!!!

Its more than just passing a few exams...

AND its far more different than knowing more about a few domestic appliances than the sales staff at currys!!!

With respect..

the Curry own oven installation guys can only install it IF there is already a proper connection plate installed..

otherwise they just walk off and leave the customer to call an ELECTRICIAN!..

Currys sales staff do NOT have to be C&G qualified electrically competent technicians...

Also being a whizz at computers carries little relevance.. as most modern computer stuff is Plug and play!

These short courses are giving you sufficient knowledge to answer a certain percentage of questions on wiring regulations to pass an exam.

That has got to be backed up by sound practical skill learned on the tools..

If you are coming to the course with NO prior practical skills....

I don't doubt that you could manage to get a pass..

BUT ..

There are hundreds of persons out there with paper qualifictions...

But no real understanding of the electrical science behind why certain regs are what they are..

We get enough of their very basic questions from so called competent electricians on the forum!!!!

Electrics is far more than just a single phase domestic house supply...

If you do find you are struggling with some aspect of the science or maths or regs or all three

on a short course..

It is very easy to find you don't have enough time to go over and grasp that topic before you have to move onto keep up with the course schedule!

If as you say you are from a Non-Technical background... (what existing qualifications have you got)..

you could well find yourself slipping behind with no room for catch up.

:coffee

 

[Timeforchange]

I fully appreciate what most of you are saying and I agree but I don't have the luxury of taking a year or two from work, i'd love to do it that way but I can't. I do however have the luxury of having a Brother that will employ me after the course to work with his Electricians to gain the experience and at the same time do the NVQ 3 on site

I really value the forum and I hope I can get more assistance as I progress from you guys, and i hope I can buck the trend and prove to you all that it's all about the individual.I never undertake anything lightly and this will not be any different.

Thanks for all the advice and I will use you comments to make my decision coupled with the restrictions I already have.

PS, the Curries bit was just a reference to the fact that when I learn something I learn it in great detail and always pay particular attention to accuracy etc!

Stewart

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.126498,1.334276

 

[Timeforchange]

I'm starting C&G soon, in the meantime what sort of things would be worth studying? Ie terminolgy,diags,safety etc

Ta

Stew

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.126711,1.334333

 

[Timeforchange]

Canoeboy, that's an interesting point you make! Of course I want to make the most of my money and that's not a bad idea! I'm not intentionally trying to rush it through!

If you were just about to be made redundant with 15k and wanted to become an Electrician, how would you go about it?

Please bare in mind I have a family and a mortgage.I have another part time job that I can continue doing at my leisure around any courses etc

For instance I can do the local full time course at my local college for a year ( i have posted it previously and got good feedback from you guys) i think it's about 2k but all the practical stuff is at the college, i can do holidays and weekends on site with Brothers firm and then when finished do part 3 on site permanant????

I am if honest slightly confused over what qualification i will gain or need to gain?

I have been checking out what help i can get and if what I have calculated is valid then my savings could last around 12/18 months if I don't earn more than

 

[Timeforchange]

And to answer about my Brothers Electricians they are both fully qualified, most of the work they do are domestic and commercial new builds but are specialists in refurb and listed buildings, in fact they've just finished 4 months at Canterbury Cathedral doing high level stonework, foundation and rewire..... Sounds fantastic to me

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.126751,1.334275

 

[Timeforchange]

I'm swaying towards the college and day release option

So C&G me thinks

I've gotta ne honest! I'm confused

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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.126584,1.334410

 

[Doc Hudson]

PS, the Curries bit was just a reference to the fact that when I learn something I learn it in great detail and always pay particular attention to accuracy etc!Stewart

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I am here: Google Maps

I do have a worrying feeling that somehow you may be thinking that you are the only one who learns things well in great detail and pays particular attention to accuracy. I think you could find it to be a naive assumption that many of the qualified time served electricians on here do not also have equal (maybe in some cases better) abilities to learn things, take on new concepts, have exceptional standards of workmanship and attention to detail. The big problem with any course is you cant pick the quality of the tutors and on a basic value for money exercise personally I do not think you get

 

[Timeforchange]

Thanks Canoeboy and Doc

Good advice!

Doc, the bit about "i learned the wrong way actually says Leant the wrong way" meaning I chose the wrong career path... Lol

I would never presume anything about a timeserved electrician, i would look upto anyone that can go through all of that!

The College course does sound like a safe bet for me really, and cheaper, and more likely to get financial help to boot.

Stew

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I am here: Google Maps

Spell checker doesn't like leant lent -vs- learned? apologies. Doc

 

[Doc Hudson]

I have merged your other "just a quick one" thread as it is relating to the same (or very similar) topic.

Doc H.

 

[Timeforchange]

Please excuse the fragmented and poor grammar, i'm on an iphone and my glaases are at home lol



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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.126575,1.334299

 

[Timeforchange]

I do have a worrying feeling that somehow you may be thinking that you are the only one who learns things well in great detail and pays particular attention to accuracy. I think you could find it to be a naive assumption that many of the qualified time served electricians on here do not also have equal (maybe in some cases better) abilities to learn things, take on new concepts, have exceptional standards of workmanship and attention to detail. The big problem with any course is you cant pick the quality of the tutors and on a basic value for money exercise personally I do not think you get

 

[Zeespark]

You would only be allowed to sign off work thats done within your firm, not anything outside it, I am fairly sure there is a Part P rule about this.

AndyGuinness

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Initially Domestic and sign of my own work and perhaps test/check and sign off others. Too early to say about commercial and 3 phase but I dare say it won't be required for the job offered at present.If i'm up to after working full time i'd love to do more but essentially i need to become a useful electrician and earn a respectable wage---

I am here: Google Maps

To sign off your own work you have either got to register with one of the Govt approved schemes...

Elecsa / Napit/ NICEIC / BSI etc....

or notify the LABC before you start & get them to test & issue Part P compliance cert.

The membership requirements for each scheme are very similar.. however A quick check of their websites will give all the qualifications they need!

opcorn

 

[Apache]

I am if honest slightly confused over what qualification i will gain or need to gain?

ELECSA want you to have your 17th edition (C&G 2382) and be 'competent' at testing an inspection, Your C&G 2392-10 Fundamental Inspection & Testing of Electrical Installations would go a long way to proving that.

ELECSA - Requirements & Costs

Our sponsor lists the full 17th Edition course at 1 day a week for 4 weeks and the 2392-10 at 1 day a week for 5 weeks. It would appear at that point if you can gain enough practical experience to pass the exams that you could join ELECSA 9 weeks later certifying your own work. Brian Scaddan Associates Ltd - Courses

Or am I reading it wrong?

The short courses still gain you City and Guilds Qualifications.

:C

 

[Timeforchange]

The short courses still gain you City and Guilds Qualifications.

:C

Interesting as some forum members have differentiated between the 5k quickie and the C&G as being very different in terms of qualifications