Someone checked one of my jobs this week. Interesting.
- Thread starter ProDave
- Start date
Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 14,509
- Reaction score
- 1,187
Someone who quite clearly hasn't read or understand much of the regs!
i use the black (sleeved blue) as neutral
I've had fun today ...... who ever wired the old lights & em lighting + extractor fans where I've been today (school toilet block replacing lights & fans) used 3Ce, some of the blacks were switch line & brown was line others were black line & brown switch line & in the teachers gents the blue was switch line, black was sleeved blue (that was the only cable sleeved apart from cpc's) as neutral & brown was line..............
what was supposed to be a simple in & out job turned in to a all day mare....
what was supposed to be a simple in & out job turned in to a all day mare....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,744
- Reaction score
- 931
There CAN be a neutral in a 3 core used for 2 way lighting, I've done it that way several times.
And when using 3c&e for a timer fan, you have a live, switched live and neutral.
So whichever you choose as neutral definitely needs sleeving blue.
PC Electrics
Well-known member
[quote name='Andy
You're right there PC , the NICEIC decreed that that would be the way , whether its "official" I don't actually know.
It's been said before but I thought it was madness to change the cable colours , as someone said earlier, the old ones will be with us for years. Someone mentioned a blue/black mix up locally but nothing published.
It's been said before but I thought it was madness to change the cable colours , as someone said earlier, the old ones will be with us for years. Someone mentioned a blue/black mix up locally but nothing published.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,744
- Reaction score
- 931
You mean the off peak RCD.
I've not been back to the job yet. I'm in no hurry to do so.
I know the "DNO sparky" has to go back to the property to do some more work on the supply, so I don't want to appear confrontational by putting the RCD back.
So I want to leave it right until the last moment before completion to go back, by which time the other guys will have finished, I can put the RCD back, and hand it over to the customer, compliant with regs.
The reason they gave for never fitting an RCD to storage heaters was complete twaddle, you had to hear it to believe it. It was something like "too much leakage, especially with all those bricks" Like I say, not what you would expect to hear from a sparky.
OOooo RCDs don't like those bricks you know , known for it they are . :|
Manator
©Honorary Essex Boy™
I have had no internet connection for the last week, away from home again, this is the first thread I have read in full and one that I would like to reply.
I fully agree with Sidewinder and canoeboy. As for sleeving, I always do it as a matter of habit, but fail to see how any competant electrician could be confused with any 3 core and earth used in a lighting circuit. The only reason I can think of as to why all cores have to be sleeved brown, is so that inexperianced, untrained people will know they are live! What other reason could there be? Now when it comes to sleeving any core used for neutral, that always needs to be done, personally I do not care if its the brown, black, or grey as long as its identified. I do have a preference, which I always use but would not dare to convert anyone to doing it my way when doing it their way works equally as well.
I fully agree with Sidewinder and canoeboy. As for sleeving, I always do it as a matter of habit, but fail to see how any competant electrician could be confused with any 3 core and earth used in a lighting circuit. The only reason I can think of as to why all cores have to be sleeved brown, is so that inexperianced, untrained people will know they are live! What other reason could there be? Now when it comes to sleeving any core used for neutral, that always needs to be done, personally I do not care if its the brown, black, or grey as long as its identified. I do have a preference, which I always use but would not dare to convert anyone to doing it my way when doing it their way works equally as well.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 14,509
- Reaction score
- 1,187
thats why you should never use RCD's in houses made of brick...
Only straw... mud....
canvas...
willow saplings....
rhubarb leaves....
anything ....
but NOT brick!!!!
:slap :slapthats why you should never use RCD's in houses made of brick...Only straw... mud....
canvas...
willow saplings....
rhubarb leaves....
anything ....
but NOT brick!!!!
onsiteguide
Junior Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 17
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't worry mate,
I had similar experience with a sparks from our rival scam, I went to survey a job and the lady wanted (insisted) a induction range and wouldn't budge on it, I recommended that she contact her supplier and enquire about an upgrade from 60A to 100A, especially since she is having a microwave grill, dishwasher and washing machine!!! Anyway I lost the job because her old man phoned his "mate" who happens to be a sparks from our rival, and they didn't know my mate was doing the tiling and he over heard them ripping me to shreds about my idea of a bigger supply, but when the lady asked my mate if he wanted a cup of tea, and he said yes, she put the kettle on and all the lights went out:slap.
Needless to say, I thought I might make a call on Christmas day, and see if they want to come and sit in my nice warm house and eat some cooked turkey :innocent
I had similar experience with a sparks from our rival scam, I went to survey a job and the lady wanted (insisted) a induction range and wouldn't budge on it, I recommended that she contact her supplier and enquire about an upgrade from 60A to 100A, especially since she is having a microwave grill, dishwasher and washing machine!!! Anyway I lost the job because her old man phoned his "mate" who happens to be a sparks from our rival, and they didn't know my mate was doing the tiling and he over heard them ripping me to shreds about my idea of a bigger supply, but when the lady asked my mate if he wanted a cup of tea, and he said yes, she put the kettle on and all the lights went out:slap.
Needless to say, I thought I might make a call on Christmas day, and see if they want to come and sit in my nice warm house and eat some cooked turkey :innocent
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 11,018
- Reaction score
- 0
Colours for cables think this has been done a few times before anyway what i do it is brown is permanent live grey is neutral sleeved blue and black is switched live. The reason i do iot this way is because the lad that helps me was shown this way. I used to do it the other way as that made more sense to me but don't want to have a conflict with this lad. I personally don't think it matters how you do it as long as you sleeve your cores.
philbas
Well-known member
This goes beyond stupid
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Messages
- 14,744
- Reaction score
- 931
I had another encounter with this guy again this week.
He had been back to do some testing on my installation. He didn't like the fact I had a heater connected to an FCU which was a spur from a ring main.
I argued that it was a last minute change of specification after first fix and after the place was plasterboarded so no chance of running a separate circuit (I am well aware of the requirement for a dedicated circuit for a heater) so it was the best I could do, and it was noted as a deviation.
A "discussion" then ensued where he told me it was "unsafe" and would I stand up in court when the house burnt down.
I said, it would be perfectly okay if that had been a single 13A socket as a spur from a ring, and someone plugged in a 3KW free standing heater, so the fact it was a 2KW heater that happened to be screwed to the wall and fed from an FCU does not make it "unsafe", and I would be happy to stand up in court and say so.
Now this is where he lost any credability in my book, he said "you can't run a 3KW heater from a 13A plug" Yeah right, his understanding of ohms law is different to mine then.
It became clear that as "DNO" he was going to pull the plug if I didn't "fix" it. So the "solution" we came up with was re route the dedicated feed for the gas water heater to supply the room heater, and make the feed to the gas water heater the FCU from the ring main.
Anyway, I think the job is finally completed. I'll think twice if any more jobs for the same estate come up, as it's got too much annoyance factor.
P.S
He also complained that one ring final was not complete, but when asked to show me, was unable to replicate his findings, and when I re testing that complete ring, including measuring R1+R2 at every socket, failed to find anything wrong with it.
P.P.S
The builder thinks this is sour grapes as apparently this other sparks normally gets all the wiring jobs on the estate, so we have trodden on his toes, and he's just trying to make life awkward for us because of that.
He had been back to do some testing on my installation. He didn't like the fact I had a heater connected to an FCU which was a spur from a ring main.
I argued that it was a last minute change of specification after first fix and after the place was plasterboarded so no chance of running a separate circuit (I am well aware of the requirement for a dedicated circuit for a heater) so it was the best I could do, and it was noted as a deviation.
A "discussion" then ensued where he told me it was "unsafe" and would I stand up in court when the house burnt down.
I said, it would be perfectly okay if that had been a single 13A socket as a spur from a ring, and someone plugged in a 3KW free standing heater, so the fact it was a 2KW heater that happened to be screwed to the wall and fed from an FCU does not make it "unsafe", and I would be happy to stand up in court and say so.
Now this is where he lost any credability in my book, he said "you can't run a 3KW heater from a 13A plug" Yeah right, his understanding of ohms law is different to mine then.
It became clear that as "DNO" he was going to pull the plug if I didn't "fix" it. So the "solution" we came up with was re route the dedicated feed for the gas water heater to supply the room heater, and make the feed to the gas water heater the FCU from the ring main.
Anyway, I think the job is finally completed. I'll think twice if any more jobs for the same estate come up, as it's got too much annoyance factor.
P.S
He also complained that one ring final was not complete, but when asked to show me, was unable to replicate his findings, and when I re testing that complete ring, including measuring R1+R2 at every socket, failed to find anything wrong with it.
P.P.S
The builder thinks this is sour grapes as apparently this other sparks normally gets all the wiring jobs on the estate, so we have trodden on his toes, and he's just trying to make life awkward for us because of that.
should ask him to put in writing everything thats 'wrong', along with reg numbers
PC Electrics
Well-known member
You should make a complaint to his company and then to SELECT if you get no joy. If you don;t and you come across them again, they'll think they can walk all over you again. You need to set the bar, mate.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 11,018
- Reaction score
- 0
I would agree that running a 3kw heater from a 13 amp plug is not a good idea if its going to be on for a long time same as running an immersion heater better to have it on a spur.
