Sparky Business Advice

[mysticalelectrickery]

first all go easy on me

been qualified for quite a few years now - city & guilds 236 and my 17th edition has well has various qualifications in electronics and experienced in PLC automation and gas safe registered currently working has a commissioning engineer for a company doing robotic spraying systems.

now i am seriously thinking of leaving the company next year and set up on my own doing electrical industrial/domestic installation work and various electrical engineering work i.e automation and panel building.

so the question is what "tickets" do i need to work in peoples houses under part p? do i need inspection & testing and join one of the big clubs? or can i just do a part P course and join a club?

sorry if this has been asked a million times before but i could do with some proper advice on this so i can work out a plan of action and cost etc etc

thanks in advance

p.s

i was a member here some time ago but alas i have both forget my username and password so i had to get in via facefook!!!

ooo it remembered me 

 

[pewter]

Best people to ask would be one of the clubs who you want to join, like NICEIC.

I thought now you need a NVQ level 3 to become a QS, but I could be wrong.

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

Best people to ask would be one of the clubs who you want to join, like NICEIC.

I thought now you need a NVQ level 3 to become a QS, but I could be wrong.

??

what ? ****ing hope not, time served an all that

 

[Sidewinder]

The money in domestic work is rubbish, you'll struggle to make a living.

If you are going in to panel building etc. that's fine, unless you are going into design too, that will cost you several £k in standards, which, you can't really design to unless you have.

I'm not being negative, but it is a rubbish area to be in, still, it has been dragged to its knees by the Pt P 5ww types, which have dragged the rest of the trade down.

 

[steptoe]

domestic is a cess pit,

Im doing it atm to pay the mortgage and the prices drop every year, mainly due to the 5ww club, as said above,

industrial is hard to break unless you are well established,

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

i know exactly what you mean but i would rather give the option rather not give the option to do house work if i can, money is money and all that. also on the panel building there would be no standards has such because i build them them now for the odd cash job and so long has the parts used are CE marked etc then the panel will conform.

thanks

 

[pewter]

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File9447.pdf

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

ta

but what in the ****s name is a Qualified Supervisor !!! who the **** come up with that idea?

 

[pewter]

http://www.niceic.com/join-us/schemes-overview

 

[steptoe]

i know exactly what you mean but i would rather give the option rather not give the option to do house work if i can, money is money and all that. also on the panel building there would be no standards has such because i build them them now for the odd cash job and so long has the parts used are CE marked etc then the panel will conform.

thanks

Im not sure where you have got that idea,

but, I'd say that is wrong,

you have to prove the sum of the parts still conforms,

its like building a car from bits, or a kit car, you have to have it inspected for the end use,

a very very basic example would be a wheel designed for a racing motorcycle,

designed for a lot LOT more stress than a road bike will ever give it, but it will not be permitted for use on a normal road bike, even though it is designed for the same standard, and exceeds it, it is incompatible with the rest of the components.

 

[Evans Electric]

A  QS  is the Qualified Supervisor  ......the one who is assessed every year .

For Domestic you really need to join a Competent Persons scheme   ( I know what you're thinking )  

May I suggest ELECSA  , they only require one job to go out to  ,,to pick flies out of.    I think you'll find that the NVQ 3 won't be a problem as you're fully qualified by the looks of it .

You need to join a scheme because they pronounce that you are "Competent"  so you can sign off your own jobs with Building Control  .  You do not need to do a testing course as long as you can show the assessor you know what you are doing .

Be prepared to fork out £400 ish to join .  

You MUST have all the testers needed  so ...Insulation ...continuity ...Loop impedance..... RCD tester

You MUST have  public Liability Ins .

You MUST have up tp date  calibration certs for testers.

You MUST have latest Regs.

You must have On Site Guide

You MUST have Electricity at Work Act  1999

And a few more    Its a Pain in the aristottle

So   NICEIC  Domestic .ELECSA ...ECA    ( All the same now)     Nappitt ..Stroma  ....   First three are the biggies in this stuff.

 

[Andy™]

i know exactly what you mean but i would rather give the option rather not give the option to do house work if i can, money is money and all that. also on the panel building there would be no standards has such because i build them them now for the odd cash job and so long has the parts used are CE marked etc then the panel will conform.

thanks

the individual parts may be CE, but as steps says, as a complete unit they wont be

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

not going to argue but i have been doing it for over 20 years

and unless your are selling your control panel to the good old USA where it has to be sent to the UL center to be tested there is no uk legislation for that other than Low Voltage Switchgear and Controlgear Assemblies must comply with  BS EN 60439 and all the gear manufactured will conform to that standard and CE tested then all standards are in fact intact. now if you are designing a control panel that requires safety relays/stop/guards etc then the system must comply with the current EN ISO 13849-1.

sorry to harp on....

A  QS  is the Qualified Supervisor  ......the one who is assessed every year .

For Domestic you really need to join a Competent Persons scheme   ( I know what you're thinking )  

May I suggest ELECSA  , they only require one job to go out to  ,,to pick flies out of.    I think you'll find that the NVQ 3 won't be a problem as you're fully qualified by the looks of it .

You need to join a scheme because they pronounce that you are "Competent"  so you can sign off your own jobs with Building Control  .  You do not need to do a testing course as long as you can show the assessor you know what you are doing .

Be prepared to fork out £400 ish to join .  

You MUST have all the testers needed  so ...Insulation ...continuity ...Loop impedance..... RCD tester

You MUST have  public Liability Ins .

You MUST have up tp date  calibration certs for testers.

You MUST have latest Regs.

You must have On Site Guide

You MUST have Electricity at Work Act  1999

And a few more    Its a Pain in the aristottle

So   NICEIC  Domestic .ELECSA ...ECA    ( All the same now)     Nappitt ..Stroma  ....   First three are the biggies in this stuff.

thanks for that much appreciated. i will do some research and maybe drop ELECSA a email. i was expecting a cost for doing it but like i said i would give the option to be able to do domestic work rather than not but i am going to concentrated on industrial work. again thanks.

 

[Andy™]

not going to argue but i have been doing it for over 20 years

plenty serial killers have been murdering for years... doesnt mean its right or legal...

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

lol

 

[steptoe]

not going to argue but i have been doing it for over 20 years

I no a guy has been wiring houses for over 20years, and industrial units too,

he has NO qualifications whatsoever,

has no idea about ohms law,

works for cash,

doesnt pay tax,

has no insurance,

does that mean what he is doing is right?

not having a go at you, and all may be good and well, until something goes wrong and you lose your house and end up asking people to buy you soap on a rope for christmas.

 

[Steve3948]

But rules are made to be broken, or why make them in the first place

Its all getting too PC in this day and age.

Its like the mix and match of Mcb's.

 

[ProDave]

i know exactly what you mean but i would rather give the option rather not give the option to do house work if i can, money is money and all that. also on the panel building there would be no standards has such because i build them them now for the odd cash job and so long has the parts used are CE marked etc then the panel will conform.

thanks

I used to design and build industrial control systems in a variety of industries.

There is a LOT more to it than just using CE marked parts (which incidental is irrelevant if you are selling outside the UK, where different standards apply)

I'm not up to date with the standards having left that sphere of work 11 years ago now. But I am just glad it was my employer that paid for coppies of all the standards that had to be applied, as compared to BS7671 they are flipping expensive.

Of course feel free to just go ahead regardless. After all, the only time anyone will really bother to scrutinise whether your design really complies with the regulations or not, is when it injures or kills someone.

IMHO this is not a business for a one man band.

 

[mysticalelectrickery]

https://www.gov.uk/electrical-equipment-manufacturers-and-their-responsibilities

simples really

anyway back on topic, i did not post on here for this i asked for advice.

 

[steptoe]

and the advice%

and the advice you got was the panels you build are more than likely not legal to be used outside of prototype status